Re: On the ordering of some PIE rules

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
> This discussion is rapidly straying off-topic for Cybalist. -BMS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
>
> > =================
> >> Sarmatians : saru-math "archer"
> >> Cf. Mongolian z^oruGa "arrow"
> > >Tungus-mandchu *sori "to throw arrows"
> >
> > >Arnaud
> >
> > ==============
> >
> >Ernout-Meillet:
> >'sagitta, -ae f. (i):
> >1° flèche;
> >2° objet en forme de flèche:
> >pointe d'une branche (cf. Isid., Or.17,5,7);
> >lancette; sagittaire (Plante); la Flèche (constellation).-
> >Ancien (Pl., Naev.), usuel. M.L. 7508.
> >Sans doute mot d'emprunt � une langue non indo-européenne; l'arc et la
> >flèche ne sont pas des armes nationales � Rome. La finale -itta paraît
> >étrusque; Plaute scande sagita, cf. Havet, Man. crit. verb. § 1142,
> >Lindsay, Early Lat. Verse, p.115.'
> >Torsten
> ==========
>
> I believe there are two roots :
> *zar and *zaG-
>
> *zaG seems to be of Caucasian origin,
> since *zaG has three meanings there :
> 1. Reed ; 2. arrow ; 3. hedgehog

But the meanings seem to be fairly readily associated - see Skt _çara_
below and note the meanings of Skt _çala_: 'staff', 'spear', 'quill of
a porcupine' (listed below).

> *zar is just arrow or bow.
> Originally a spear
> Cf. Arabic :
> - zarra "percer quelqu'un avec une lance"
> - zaraq "jeter un javelot contre quelqu'un"
> - zurq (pluriel) "fers de lance ou de flèches, flèches"
> - mizara:q "javelot, lance courte, harpon" (m- instrumental)
> - zurqut.a: "guêpe"

You do appreciate, don't you, that Sanskrit /ç/ is the reflex of PIE k^.

> Sanscrit sara, zaru, srga, srka, "flèche".

Note that Skt. _sara_ seems to be a Prakritisation of _çara_.

> Sanscrit ziri, zili:, zarya,
>
> *****
>
> *zaG has had a vast offspring.
>
> Meaning : arrow
> - *zaG > *sag (Latin, Basque)
> - *zaG-r > *sa:r (Corée, Turcic)
> - *zaG-m > *sahm (Arabe, Mongol, Tchuvash)
> - *zaG-s (Chinois)
>
> Meaning : hedgehog or Porcupine
>
> Nord-Caucasique zGar(-bi) "hérisson" (-bi est la marque du pluriel)
> Ce mot est emprunté dans plusieurs langues :
> - Finno-ougrien *s&jal "hérisson" (< *zaGar) [schwa repl .by '&' - JRW]
> - Allemand Igel "hérisson"

The latter goes back to PIE *h1eg^hi-.

> - Sanscrit zala, zala:ka:, zalala, zalali:, "porc-épic"
> - A noter aussi basque sagarroi "hérisson"
>
> Sanscrit sa:ya, za:yaka, za:ri "flèche"

_ça:yaka_ appears to be a hypersanskritisation of _sa:yaka_.

> Sanscrit zara "flèche, roseau"
> Sanscrit zalya(ka), zala:ka:, "flèche, tige, porc-épic"
> Sanscrit sedha "hérisson"

Richard.