Re: Not "catching the wind " , or, what ARE we discussing?

From: tgpedersen
Message: 57233
Date: 2008-04-13

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Some clarifications.
> > > --- "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Sez who? Goscinny? Uderzo? You can't change the fact that
> > > > > the Chatti archaeologically aren't Celtic.
> > > > > Torsten
> > > > > ============
> > > > >
> > > > > I suppose I may have overlooked
> > > > > a reference pointing to this.
> > > > > Please give it again.
> > > >
> > > > Once more:
> > > > "
> > > > > O. Uenze left the old thought patterns in a different
> > > > > manner. He observed, that the North Hesse group of the early
> > > > > Latène period could not with any certainty be called either
> > > > > Celtic or Germanic.
> > >
> > > ****GK: If we are to believe Hachmann, the group
> > > called "Chatti" in the 1rst c. CE was not yet in North
> > > Hesse in "early La Tene". They were still north of the
> > > Lippe r. which was the boundary between "Germanic" in
> > > any sense (incl NWB) and "neither Celtic or Germanic".
> > > We don't know what they were called. We don't know
> > > what the "neither Celtic or Germanic" population south
> > > of the Lippe was called. Were the northerners already
> > > "Chatti"? Were the southerners "Chatti" in the 5th c.
> > > BCE? We don't know.****
> >
> > Going by their name, the geminated 'Chatti', the northerners would
> > be linguistically NWBlock speakers.
> >
> > > > > According to him, they were a tribal group with local
> > > > > characteristics [O. Uenze, Vorgesch. der hessischen Senke
> > > > > (1953) 26]. By that he implied that the scheme delivered by
> > > > > historical linguistics doesn't always correspond to what
> > > > > actually happened, but didn't yet find the nearest solution. "
> > > >
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/56384
> > > >
> > > > Torsten
> > > >
>
> ...
>
> > Wrt. gemination: Any PIE *-tt- becomes *-ss- in Celtic, Germanic
> > and Italic; the only way a *-tt- could exist in those languages is
> > by later composition (or by positing derivation from undetectable
> > phonemes like Arnaud does). But we have a strong suspicion that
> > the word 'Chatti' is cognate with Celtic Cassi, Latin Gens Cassia,
> > their alternative name Kennoi and *-hant- in Twente and Drente.
> > The solution that satifies all these demands is that the Chatti
> > were NWBlock-speaking NWBlock people driven out during Elbe
> > Germanic expansion into their old areas.
>
> Yet another form to confirm this 'cluster': for 'Tubanti'
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubanti
> (*Tu-hant- > Twente) Strabo has 'Tubatti'.
> http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/7A*.html#1.4
>
More:
The Baiocasses, another of those Celtic tribes in cass-, lived in
Pagus Baiocensis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiocasses


Torsten