Fw: [MTLR] Re: [tied] Re: dating of aryans

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
To: <MTLR@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [MTLR] Re: [tied] Re: dating of aryans


>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Lass" <lass@...>
> To: <MTLR@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [MTLR] Re: [tied] Re: dating of aryans
>
>
> > You migtht have a look at an article (forget the date) by Peter
> > Ladefoged
> > and Tony Traill in Language, which is an instrumental analysis of a San
> > language. Numbers of clicks like this are quite common and not at all
> > problematic, any more than the huge consonant inventories of some
> > Caucasian
> > languages. There are so many secondary articulations available:
> > palatalisation, labialisation, velarisation, uvularisation,
> > pharyngealisation, glottal constriction on onset or offset, pre- or
> > post-
> > nasalisation, aspiration, breathy-voice ... Combine a good number of
> > these
> > with say foour or five places of articulation and you can derive quite
> > splendid inventory.
> >
> > Even 'simple' click systems (largely borrowed from Khoesan) in the Nguni
> > languages (e.g. Xhosa and Zulu) use combinatorial strategies like this.
> > Zulu
> > has 15 clicks, three places of articulation and plain, aqspirated,
> > pre-voiced, nasalised and breathy voiced.
> >
> > Roger Lass
>
> <snip>
>
> Thank you, Roger.
>
> Candidly, I was aware of the Zulu state of affairs, and did not think it
> qualified.
>
> I guess it is all in the point of view.
>
> I look at Zulu and see three clicks: dental, alveolar, and
> alveolar-lateral;
>
> 1 less than Nama ( which has a palatal click);
>
> and 2 less than others, who have a bilabial click.
>
> To me, Zulu has clusters of non-click and click constituents:
>
> 1) following aspiration; 2) preceded by [g]; 3) preceded by [ng];
>
> 2) preceded by [g] AND followed by aspiration; 3) preceded by [ng] AND
> followed by aspiration.
>
> Whether these clusters have achieved phonemic status or not, it seems
> incontrovertibly clear to me that they are composed of two very different
> components.
>
>
> Now, does anyone know of a language that has more than the six clicks I
> mentioned above: dental, alveolar, alveolar-lateral, palatal, and
> bilabial?
>
>
>
> Patrick