Re: Priimary Stem Formants: =*H, -*i/y, *-u/w

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

>
> On 2008-04-07 02:14, Patrick Ryan wrote:
>
> > A very great number of the PIE roots that we find are *C + one of

the stem

> > formants above:
> >
> > -*H, -*I/y, -*u/w
> >
> > Another large number combine two of these primary stem formants:
> >
> > *CVHi-, *CVHu-
> >
> > Without reaching outside of PIE for answers, is it possible to

determine

> > what the earliest meaning of these formants?
>
> There's nothing *inside* IE to suggest that roots like *//dHeh1-//,
> *//steh2-//, *//deh3-// contain an extension. On the contrary, all

the

> available evidence shows them to be indivisible, and the same is

true of

> roots like *//werh1-// 'speak', *//perh2-// 'trade', *//gWerh3-//
> 'swallow, devour'. A root like *werh1- has no relatives of the form
> *wer- or *werC- (where *C is something else than *h1).

But on the other hand we have:
k^er- and k^er-h2- if I remember correctly (Nussbaum)
and also
pei- (> pei-d) and peih-

So a pattern
<root> extended in
<root>+laryngeal
<root>+consonant
exist.

And once we would accept the fact that such roots existed the
semantism of the extension will enter in equation

> Cases like *//drem- ~ *dreh2- ~ *drew-// 'run' suggest an analysis

in

> terms of pre-PIE **d(e)r-éC-, but the meaning of the extensions can
> hardly be recovered, as the roots in question are practically

synonymous

> and the unextended **der- is not attested. In my article on *gWih3w-

I

> point out that *-ew- recurs in verbs indicating movement (such as
> *drew-, *plew-, *srew- and my hypothetical *gWew-).

The direction of the movement is more probable indicated here...

Only a speculation on my side:

-eu would indicate the direction 'from here' I------->
(maybe 'to you' < *u (if *u is that one of *t-uh & *y-uh)
I------->Y

-em will indicate a direction 'to here' I<-------
(maybe 'to me' < *mi)


-eh2 will indicate an opposite direction 'away' <-----------I
of a different direction ('to that') ----------->x

and I would add
-eh1 that will indicate a stative action that take place with no
distinguished endpoint


-e- being here only 'a kind of thematic vowel'
'introducing' the real markers *-m- *-u- *-h2- *-h1-

> "Long diphthongal" roots like *//dHeh1j-// 'suck', *//deh2j-//
> 'distribute', *//peh3j-// 'drink' are reconstructed by Jasanoff

(2003)

> as a special category of "h2e-conjugation i-presents", coming in

two

> flavours: mobile (3sg. *dHéh1-j-e, 3pl. *dH[h1]-j-énti) and static
> (*spé:h2-j-e/*spéh2-j-n.ti 'be sated' [J.'s reconstrucion]).

Jasanoff

> hypothesises that this *-j- was restricted to laryngeal-final roots
> while other roots made *-je/o- presents; he only observes but does

not

> explain this complementary distribution. If he is right, the *-i-
> "extension" ha no meaning, just a _function_ (as a present-stem

forming

> element).

No Meaning?

when
dHeh1- means 'to set, to place'
dHeh1-i- means 'to suck'

in the above case the -i- seems to represent 'a liquid' here or
something that 'covers' 'a liquid' too...

> Possible traces of a PIE u-extension are visible in a few present

stems

> like *//terh2w-// 'overcome, cross over' (Skt. tú:rvati < *tr.h2-w-

é/ó-)

> and *//wel(h)w-// 'turn' (Lat. volvo: etc.), but there are so few

of

> them that general conclusions about the meaning or function of this

*w

> are hard to draw (in verbs of movement like these two and

*//dHenh2w-//

> 'move off' it could perhaps be identified with my *-ew- extension).
> Piotr

-u- is also linked to the movement actions but I think that he has a
different meaning in relation with the above -eu


My guess is that this -u- is an intensive marker here
<action>-u- => 'I do this <action> with force'

Marius