Re: Not "catching the wind " , or, what ARE we discussing?

From: tgpedersen
Message: 56846
Date: 2008-04-06

> > It strikes me that there would have been plenty of time for the
> > innovation to enter the Icelandic litterature. The sagas
> > supposedly also contain elements modelled on christian tales.
> > The oldest elements of the sagas can hardly be proven much
> > older than mid first century.
> > Jouppe

Bear in mind your saying that to someone who thinks Odin arrived in
Scandinavia in the last half century BCE.

>
> The word for cat could have changed over the years.
> Before the introduction of domestic cats, there must
> have been words in Gmc, Celtic, Slavic et al for cats,
> keeping in mind that Latin had feles and Greek had
> ailuro-

Ernout-Meillet:
'cattus, -i: m., et catta, -ae f. (doublet gattus, gatta):
chat, chatte.
Attesté avec ce sens depuis Palladius (le terme ancien est fe:le:s);
bien représenté dans les l. romanes;
ital. gatto,-a, esp. gato,-a; fr. chat, chatte, M.L.1770.
Sur cattus ... quod cattat, i.e. uidet
dans Isid.12,2, 38., v. Sofer, p.62.-
Dans Martial, 13, 69,1, Pannonicas nobis numquam dedit Vmbria cattas,
le mot semble désigner un oiseau, peut-être le hoche-queue, aílouros,
cf. gattula "attagé:n" Orib.
La substitution de cattus à fe:le:s doit correspondre à l'introduction
à Rome du chat domestique, sans doute importé d'ailleurs.
Dérivés: cattin(e)us, tardif (= fe:li:nus);
catto:,-as, cf. sans doute esp. catar.
Le celtique a irl. catt, gall. cath reposent sur *kattos, qui figure
en gaulois comme nom propre Cattos;
l'emprunt du mot au latin, admis par M.Pedersen, est donc peu
vraisemblable.
Le vieux haut allemand a kazza, le v.norr. ko,ttr, le lituanien
kâte.~, le slave kotUka. Mais ces mots peuvent provenir, comme le mot
latin, d'une langue inconnue. Le "chat" domestique ne s'est répandu
que tardivement dans le monde romain; l'origine en est discutée
(Afrique?).'

So, if Celtic *kattos is unlikely to have been borrowed from Latin,
but must come from some other language, why must Germanic *kattu- be
borrowed from Latin? What other examples are there of a Latin thematic
stem being borrowed into Germanic as a u-stem (cf. the -U- in the
Slavic word)?


Torsten