Re: Mitanni and Matsya

----- Original Message -----
From: "kishore patnaik" <kishorepatnaik09@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Mitanni and Matsya


[Irrelevant quotes and HTML removed; reformatted to avoid top-posting. --
Piotr]

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...> wrote:

> The alternate forms of *Varuna as Aruna/~Uruwana make possible that
> Greek Ouranos had an Hurrian origin too. What was its original form?
> *Warwana, *Arwana, *Urwana, Wr.wana, *Aruna, *Warwuna, *Auruna?
> Vedic Varuna seems to combine traits of IE *Dyeus, Dumezilian
> Terrible Sovereign (maybe *h2Nsuros, since Varuna was Varuna Asura,
> as Odin was Ódinn Áss), Middle East Sea-God Ea-Enki (when Varuna
> became a Sea-God) and Sky-God An.


While linguistically it might be anything. But as such, the meanings of
Varuna (in IE) and Aruna (in Hitti) are different yet, they are related.

Varuna is an assuric God and is the Lord of Cosmological sea in
Vedas.(Witzel's idea that RV aryans have never seen a sea. I have no
comments on that now) He held many other posts such as maintaining the
cosmological Order, the Rta and punishing the violators of such discipline.
He was reduced to a functional god in the later periods, ruler of one
Direction and also, the lord of seas.

Mittani word Aruna, so far I know, means sea. Thus, the borrowing, to my
mind is clear- it is from IA (the unknown-the cosmological sea) to the
known(a physical sea).

It is interesting to note that the word Aruna in Skt has also grown from
Varuna. Varuna is also the Lord of 12 Adityas and many names of these
Adityas, later appropriated by Sun God, are related to Varuna and Mitra, the
twin assuric gods.

hope you agree with me.

regards,

Kishore patnaik


***

Kishore,

my other major field of interest is ancient religions.

The 'wide one' correlates nicely with a 'sea-god'.

Usually, the 'sea-god' is associated with the planet Venus.

So, he is not really a 'sky-god'; for the 'weather-god', however, is a post
that usually belongs to gods associated with the planet Jupiter, the (next)
brightest planet in the sky.

Cosmic order and justice is usually the province of a 'sun-god'.

My guess is that the 12 Adityas originally belonged to the sun-god whose
regulates the cosmic and earthly order.

I would suggest for a people devoted to trading at sea, Varuna might take a
more important position than among inland-dwelling populations.

I would not be surprised if Ouranus were not the same god at origin. I think
Dumézil thought so but I am not sure. I do think this etymology is not in
favor at the moment, however.

I think speculation about Hurrian or any non-IE origins is unnecessary if we
accept *weru- as the source. The 'one who confines' just does not make any
sense for a 'sea-god'; and I propose that is what Varuna was _originally_.

There has been so much accretion that finding origins is always very
difficult but think of Aphrodite, a 'sea-goddess', with _no_ connection to
the cosmological ocean, the sky.

That is the province of the 'weather-god'; and real 'sky-gods' are usually
inactive and out of the picture for serious worship.

Though it is difficult to prove, I suspect the 'sky-god' was associated with
the Northern Circumpolar Region and the various stars that have served as
the North Pole.

I believe the Hebrew Yahu is one such sky-god who is the exception to the
rule.

Hope this is helpful.


Patrick