Re: Not "catching the wind " , or, what ARE we discussing? Was (Q

On 2008-04-02 17:24, george knysh wrote:

> (4) What are these traits? The Grimm consonental shift
> is certainly one. There are others.

The Grimm/Verner/Kluge complex of changes is uniquely Germanic and can
be conveniently regarded as the defining autapomorphy of the group. Any
language ancestral or related to the historically known Gmc. languages
but not showing the operation of those changes would then be
non-Germanic by definition (it might be "pre-Gmc." or "para-Gmc.").

> (5) Which trait or cluster of traits is it necessary
> to assume as existing before a language or dialect may
> be labeled "Germanic" say ca. the beginning of the
> common era?
> (6) Are we focusing primarily on the Grimm shift, and
> on the contention that it was initiated by the people
> of the Przeworsk culture, when we are discussing the
> "genesis" of Germanic (that's what I thought), or is
> something else involved, viz. other traits?*****

One has to remember that sound changes, even quite dramatic ones, do not
have to depend on external factors or be correlated with historical
events so importannt that they should leave their signature in the
archaeological record. Phonological shifts may happen during a period
when the social, political, religious and cultural life of a linguistic
community is fairly stable (cf. the Great Vowel Shift in English).

Piotr