From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 56404
Date: 2008-04-02
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miguel Carrasquer Vidal" <miguelc@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] RE: 'Vocalic Theory'
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:57:36 -0500, "Patrick Ryan"
> <proto-language@...> wrote:
***
The 'following' should have been expanded to 'following syllable, evidently.
Umlaut: two syllables; coloration: same syllable/
***
> Emphatic coloration (like laryngeal coloration in PIE) works
> both ways (Eg. Arabic s.Aff "row", bAt.n "stomach", fÁd.d.A
> "he emptied").
***
So? fAd. + d.A - same syllable; umlaut: sta-di -> ste-di - two syllables.
***
> >A corollary is that the agent and
> >the patient are always in the same syllable which is never the cause with
> >Umlaut.
> >
> >So, it is perfectly natural that any quality change effected by an
> >emphatic
> >would affect but short vowels and long vowels in the same syllable.
>
> Of course it's perfectly natural that colouring would affect
> short and long vowels alike. It's also perfectly natural
> that it would affect short vowels more than long vowels.
***
Why is that?
***
> Long vowels are simply "stronger" than short vowels, just
> like geminate consonants are "stronger" than single ones.
***
This is linguistics not a weight-lifting contest.
***
> Another example: Old English breaking (fracture) affects
> front vowels before "velars" (h, r, l, w?). Most affected is
> /æ/, then /e/, then /i/. Even less affected (but still
> affected) are the long vowels /æ:/ and /i:/. The hierarchy
> is short/low - short/high - long/low - long/high.
***
Yes, a perfect example of coloring affecting _all_ vowels to variable
extents based on their physical position and length of articulation.
***
> See
> https://dspace.ucalgary.ca/bitstream/1880/25119/1/38538Kitch.pdf
>
> p. 111-112 (Conclusions):
>
> To characterize the parameter which indicates vowels in
> breaking, I incorporated the properties of height and
> length, which are reflected to varying degrees in breaking
> diphthongs. In consideration of the differing strength
> values of low, mid and high vowels, according to Vennemann
> (1988), and also, that long vowels typically demonstrate
> more resistance to vowel mutation
***
Mutation? where is that defined?
***
than short vowels, as
> outlined by Goldsmith (1990), I suggested that the vowels
> involved in breaking could be graded within a scale
> according to their intrinsic strength, or the degree of
> resistance to diphthong formation they demonstrate
> in breaking. This vocalic parameter was labelled as vowel
> integrity.
***
I do not doubt that a long vowel ([e] + [e]) would be affected differently
than a short vowel ([e]) but it would not affected; and the idea that short
vowels but not long vowels in PIE can be colored is kaka (example of velar
coloring).
The single vowel of a long vowel pair on the side directly in contact with
the agent of change would be more affected that the single vowel at the
other side, leading to possible diphthongization.
Patrick
***
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> miguelc@...
>
>