Re: Slav names from *Walh-

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"

<alexandru_mg3@>

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
> <alexandru_mg3@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> > > > > <miguelc@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:03:19 -0000, "tgpedersen"
> > > > > > <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >I know the various Polish and Russian names from PGmc.
> *walh.
> > > > > > >"southern foreigner" in -lo-/-olo- probably follow
> ordinary
> > > > rules
> > > > > of
> > > > > > >derivation from Proto-Proto-Slav. -al-.
> > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_Vlach
> > > > > > >I just want to be sure: Are we absolutely certain all
> Slavic
> > > > forms
> > > > > > >from Germanic *walh- are from exactly that form in -al-
> and
> > not
> > > > > > >something earlier (I'm thinking of the original -ol- in
> > Celtic
> > > > > Volcae)?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since Slavic did not distinguish between /o/ and /a/, that
> > > > > > would be hard to tell. The /h/, however, shows it was
> > > > > > borrowed from Germanic *walh-.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =======================
> > > > > > Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> > > > > > miguelc@
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ... and if you will go further Vallachia is finally linked
> with
> > > > > Walhalla - the great hall in Norse mythology where heroes
> slain
> > > in
> > > > > battle are received
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/valhalla
> > > > >
> > > > > Marius
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Valhalla
> > > > heavenly hall in which Odin receives the souls of heroes

slain

> in
> > > > battle, 1768, from O.N. Valhöll "hall of the battle-slain;"
> first
> > > > element from valr "those slain in battle,"
> > > >
> > > > "
> > > > from P.Gmc. *walaz (cf. O.E. wæl "slaughter, bodies of the
> > slain,"
> > > > O.H.G. wal "battlefield, slaughter"),
> > > > from PIE base *wele- "to strike, wound"
> > > > (cf. Avestan vareta- "seized, prisoner,"
> > > > L. veles "ghosts of the dead,"
> > > > O.Ir. fuil "blood,"
> > > > Welsh gwel "wound").
> > > >
> > > > Second element is from höll "hall," from PIE base *kel- "to
> > > conceal"
> > > > (see cell). Reintroduced by 18c. antiquaries. Figurative

sense

> is
> > > > from 1845
> > > > "
> > > >
> > > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Valhalla
> > > >
> > > > Marius
> > > >
> > >
> > > Matasovic for Celtic Cognates
> > >
> > > "Proto-Indo-European: *welh2/3- 'wound'
> > >
> > > Proto-Celtic: *weli- 'blood' [Noun]
> > >
> > > Old Irish: fuil [i f]
> > >
> > > Middle Welsh: gweli 'blood, wound'
> > >
> > > Middle Breton: goulyow [p]
> > >
> > > Cornish: goly
> > >
> > > Page in Pokorny: 1144f.
> > >
> > > IE cognates: Lat. uolnus, Gr. oulḗ 'scar'
> > >
> > > Notes: The laryngeal is implied by Lat. -ln- (from *-lan- by
> > syncope;
> > > original *ln would have been assimilated to ll, cp.

tollo 'take'

> <
> > > *tolnō). W gweli and the other British forms cannot be
> derived
> > > directly from the proto-form *weli-, but rather presuppose some
> > kind
> > > of suffix, perhaps *-īso- (Pokorny).
> > >
> > > References: De Bernardo Stempel 1999: 65, 73, EIEC 650.
> > > "
> > >
> > >
> > > Marius
> >
> > Valfather: Odin as "father of the slain." Old Norse (ON) valr
> > = "slaughter, corpses, those slain in battle," cognate with Old
> > English (OE) wæl. "[Odin] is called 'Valfather' because all who
> fall
> > in battle are his adopted sons; he assigns them places in

Valhalla

> > ['Hall of the Slain'] ... and they are then called Einherjar"

(Gylf

> > 20).
> >
> >
> > You can compare this with Herodotus regarding Zalmoxis:
> >
> > "But before he came to the Ister, he first subdued the Getae, who
> > pretend to be immortal. The Thracians of Salmydessus and of the
> > country above the towns of Appolonia and Mesambria, who are

called

> > Cyrmaianae and Nipsaei, surrendered themselves unresisting to
> Darius;
> > but the Getae, who are the bravest and most law-abiding of all
> > Thracians, resisted with obstinacy, and were enslaved forthwith.
> >
> > 94. As to their claim to be immortal, this is how they show it:
> they
> > believe that they do not die, but that he who perishes goes to

the

> > god Salmoxis or Gebelexis, as some of them call him. Once in

every

> > five years they choose by lot one of their people and send him as

a

> > messenger to Salmoxis, charged to tell of their needs; and this

is

> > their manner of sending: Three lances are held by men thereto
> > appointed; others seize the messenger to Salmoxis by his hands

and

> > feet, and swing and hurl him aloft on to the spear-point. If he

be

> > killed by the cast, they believe that the gods regard them with
> > favour; but if he be not killed, they blame the messenger

himself,

> > deeming him a bad man, and send another messenger in place of him
> > whom they blame. It is while the man yet lives that they charge

him

> > with the message.
> > "
> >
> > Marius
>
>
> Pokorny Root: wel-8
>
> English meaning: to tear, wound; to steal
>
> http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?
> single=1&basename=/data/ie/pokorny&text_number=2133&root=config
>
> Marius
>

http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE566.html






If Vlach (< *walh) belongs here remains to establish its original
sufix in order to understand its final meaning

Any help?

Marius