From: Rick McCallister
Message: 55943
Date: 2008-03-25
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen"____________________________________________________________________________________
> <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> <gknysh@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This one you won't like:
> > > >
> > > > An attempt on an etymology foe Ariovist:
> > > >
> > > > PGmc. *xarja-gastiz ->
> > > > Suebian *xérj&Gest- ->
> > > > through an Gaulish-Latin interpreter (Ariovist
> spoke
> > > > Gaulish, Caesar spoke no Gaulish)
>
> In 'Warist, Werstine und Werstein' Kuhn tries to
> show that many
> Germanic names in ending in
> -stein/-steen/-sta:n/-sten are
> reinterpretations of pre- and non-Germanic names in
> ending in -st-,
> and that this is shown in the sets of matching
> -st/-stein etc of
> personal names, etnonyms and toponyms:
> "
> I now name these pairs or groups of names.
> [sources left out of text]
>
> OE. Ade-sta:n : OS. Addasta,
> further the toponyms Addestan-stidi/Addestondorp and
> Adestessen;
>
> ODu. Ale-stein/Al-ste:n ...;
>
> OE. Al-/Æl-/El-sta:n : Fries. Allust, Alste, Elst,
> further the toponym Alsten-rode and many of the type
> Alaste/Alisti.. ;
>
> ODu. Adel-stein, OE Æþel-sta:n : altndd. Adalusta;
>
> OHG Alb-stein, OE Ælf-sta:n : OFrank. Albust, Fries.
> Alvest;
>
> OHG OS Brun-stein : OLG Brunist,
> futher the toponym Brunistes-husun and Brunest-heim;
>
>
> OE Ecg-sta:n : OHG Eggusta, Gr. Agastas,
> further the toponym type Agasta/Agista ... ;
>
> OS Heri-ste:n : Lat. Caristus and Caristanus,
> further th toponym Heristi ...;
>
> OHG Hruod-stein, OS Hröd-ste:n : OS Rothest/Rodest
> ... ;
>
> OE Hu:n-sta:n : WFrank. Hunesta;
>
> OE Leof-sta:n : OHG Liebesta, OE Leofusta;
>
> OHG Mein-stein : OS Meinhist ...
> plus Fries. Meinste, Menst ...;
>
> Burg. Raene-stanus/Rai-stagnus ... : Fries.
> Reinist/Reinst,
> further the toponym Regenstenc-husen;
>
> OHG Remi-/Rimi-stein, Burg. Remi-stagnus ... :
> Remistus und Remisto ... and Fries. Remste,
> further the toponyms Rimisten-rein and Rimstingen;
>
> OHG Sigi-stein, OE Sige-sta:n : OGmc. Segestes and
> MDu. Sigest ... ,
> further the toponym Segeste and relatives ... ;
>
> ODa. War-stein ... , OE. War-/Wer-sta:n : Varistus
> ... and
> MDu. Werest/Verest ...,
> further many toponyms ... .
>
> ...
> ...
> To corrobsorate this I have to digress shortly into
> the history of
> personal names with st-suffix. On the continent they
> enjoyed more
> importance than the ones on -stein. In the North,
> however, where these
> latter were rather frequent, the former are not
> documented, and also
> in England there are only a few tangible ones.
> Without support in the
> genuine vocabulary seem only Ribrost and Unust, but
> those two might
> have been Celts. The well-known Hengest is a native
> appellative and
> only semi-legendary. To my knowledge there remains
> only Leofusta,
> which might or should be understood as superlative
> to leof "dear", and
> Fregist/Frigist which seems to contain OE gist
> "guest", although this
> is very rare in the old English personal names.
> Among the few -gist
> names I noticed there are Friþe-/Fryþe-gist which
> could be reshaped
> from Frigist, and Ere-gist, with a completely
> isolated first element.
> This might also be an old -st formation, with close
> relatives in a
> Phryg. Argistes and the German toponym
> Argeste/Ergeste (now Ergste ...)...
> "
>
> Oh. Ere-gist ? Completely isolated. If this is the
> one, then
> Ariovistus < Eregistaz/Arjagistaz might have had a
> pre-Germanic, but
> IE name (gist- < *ghest- ?). Or it might have been
> reformed from Argest-?
>
>
> > > ****GK: Ariovist could not have had a
> German-Latin
> > > interpreter? Just wondering.****
> >
> >
> > This is the first Germanic-Roman encounter
> recorded. Where would a
> > Latin-Germanic interpreter then have acquired his
> second language?
> > Caesar is the first to mention the Germani at all,
> and Ariovistus is
> > the first one of them he sees.
> >
>
> DBG I, 47
> 'It seemed [therefore] most proper to send to him
> Gaius Valerius
> Procillus, the son of Gaius Valerius Caburus, a
> young man of the
> highest courage and accomplishments (whose father
> had been presented
> with the freedom of the city by Gaius Valerius
> Flaccus), both on
> account of his fidelity and on account of his
> knowledge of the Gallic
> language which Ariovistus, by long practice, now
> spoke fluently; and
> because in his case the Germans would have no motive
> for committing
> violence; and [as his colleague] Marcus Mettius, who
> had shared the
> hospitality of Ariovistus.'
>
> This not the only time Caesar communicates with
> Ariovistusa, but it
> seems to implicate that the way to do it was in the
> Gallic language.
>
>
> Torsten
>
>
>