From: george knysh
Message: 55857
Date: 2008-03-24
> lived.****GK: A good example of Torsten barging into open
> >
> > GK: Not necessarily "north of the Sudetes" .
> It
> > may indicate that the "Teuri-homers" came from
> > wherever the Teuri-home was, not that the
> Teuri-home
> > was north of the Sudetan range where they were
> placed
> > by Ptolemy. They could have been (by 160 CE)
> > Germanized elements pushed from the old Tauriscan
> > haunts south of the Danube by Burebista. They
> could
> > have come from elsewhere also.
>
> No, they came from somewhere where 'Teuri' used to
> live.
> live." Which was not necessarily where the NoricanTaurisci were.****
> Boio-haim- is the former home of the non-Germanic****GK: That's the logic.*****
> Boii. Teurio-chaim-
> must therefore be the home of the non-Germanic
> Teuri, not of the
> Germanic Turingi.
>****GK: What makes you think they didn't? Przeworsk
> > > > I was wondering if the indirectly documented
> *Teuri- in the Czech
> > > lands might possibly be the same people as the
> Taurisci in
> > > Carinthia? If so, those Taurisci were the
> nearest Celtic people
> > > to Latènicize Przeworsk.
> >
> > GK: Polish archaeologists think it was the
> Celts of Silesia.
>
> Polish archaeologists should be reading Ptolemy.
>****GK: The Romans did not recognize Ariovistus as
> > > > >
> > > > > The first we hear of Ariovistist is his
> encounter
> > > > > with Q. Metellus Celer in 62 BCE.
> > > >
> > > > GK: Wrong. Pliny only speaks of a "king of the
> > > > Suebi" in Germania, who has dealings with the
> Roman
> > > > governor of Gallia Cisalpina.
> > >
> > > Ariovistus at that time had been without a roof
> over his troops
> > > consisting also of Suevi, ie on a war footing,
> for ten years, he
> > > was a Suevi, and so was his wife. I think we can
> safely
> > > assume he was the guy the Romans wanted to do
> business with.
> >
> > GK: You're avoiding the issue.
>
> What issue?
>
> > The "king of the Suevi" who contacted the Roman
> Governor of Gallia
> > Cisalpina (in northern Italy) was in Germania,
> according to Pliny.
> > His name is not given.
>
> That's right. Ariovistus was in Germania, ie east of
> the Rhine at the
> time, because he was not yet the ally of the Sequani
> and Arverni.
>inconsequential remarks cut for economy/
>
> > > > > That is four, not fourteen years before he
> meets
> > > > > Caesar. It seems unreasonable to assume that
> he
> > > > > became the ally of the Sequani and Arverni
> much before that
> > > > > time, there is no reaction from the Romans
> before that
> > > >
> > > > GK: Why should there be? They only reacted
> when
> > > > the Aedui approached them for help.
> > > >
> > > Oh, come on. The Aedui controlled an area
> important to northern
> > > trade. The Romans would have reacted sooner.
> >
> > GK: Torsten, the point is that the Romans did
> not
> > react until approached by their Aedui clients
> after
> > the Helvetian affair. Your imagination is not a
> > substitute for recorded historical facts. No sense
> in
> > getting irritated at history is there?
>
> You have a mirror? /Torsten's subsequent
> > > But he doesn't say: "as an ally of the Sequani*****GK: Because, Torsten, "l'appetit vient en
> and Arverni", or
> > > "in Gaul". He has been on the warpath for
> fourteen years
> > > is all he tells Caesar.
> >
> > GK: With not very much success if so. There is
> no
> > intimation in Caesar that Ariovistus had any
> > territories under his control except his Gallic
> > settlements.
>
> He was expecting 24,000 Harudes which he had to
> settle. Why would he
> have any obligation to do that if they were a
> foreign tribe? Why
> didn't he tell them to get lost? Why would he share
> the hard-won
> spoils of was otherwise?
>=== message truncated ===
>