Re: dhuga:ter ('LARYNGEALS')

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:14:56 +0100, "fournet.arnaud"
<fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
>
> PIE *e is by far the most common vowel, followed by *o, and the least
>common by far is *a. The most common laryngeals are *h2 and
>*h1, the least common, by far, is *h3.
>
>=======
>
>Do we have statistics about this ?

I haven't seen any. If I count the roots with initial
laryngeal in LIV, I get the following statistic:

H- 14 (unknown laryngeal)
h1- 42
h2- 83
h3- 21

That would seem to be significant enough to establish a
ranking: (1) *h2, (2) *h1, (3) *h3.

>Arnaud
>=================
>
>The Slavic a:-stem instrumental -ojoN, like the Skt.
>instrumental -aya: and the Armenian oblique -oj^, derive
>from PIE *-o-jh2-eh1 (that is: thematic vowel *-o- (this is
>the expected shape before a voiced segment) + feminine
>suffix *-jh2- in zero grade + stressed instrumental suffix
>-éh1) > *-ojh2áh1. In Skt. *-ojHa: regularly gives -aya:
>(without Brugmann), in Armenian we have -oj^ with regular
>loss of the final vowel and jH > jj > j^. In Slavic we would
>have expected *-aja: > +-oja, but an *-N was added (as often
>happens in vowel-final case-endings), giving *-aja:N >
>*-ajo:N > *-ajaN > -ojoN. The Slavic form cannot be from
>*-oje:(N), which would have given +-ojeN.
>
>This shows that the sequence *h2eh1 gives (H)a: (as in Latin
>*h2eh1sah2 > a:ra). Apparently, *h3 in turn tops *h2 in a
>word like *h2eh3m(e)n [or possibly *h3eh2-mn-] > Lat. o:men.
>
>If the laryngeal merely preserved the quality of the
>original vowel, we would always have laryngeals of the same
>colouring [the same subscript in terms of the laryngeal
>theory] on both ends of the vowel. The fact that we do have
>*h2eh1, *h3eh2/*h2eh3 etc. disproves that. The fact that we
>_don't_ seem to have *h1eh1, *h2eh2 ot *h3eh3 tends to
>confirm that *h1, *h2 and *h3 were separate phonemes, given
>that consonants do not normally repeat themselves in PIE
>roots (reduplications excepted).
>Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
>
>=======================
>
>This is extremely interesting.
>
>Do we have anatolian data supporting
>*h2eh1sah2 > a:ra ?
>*H2eH1-s

*h2eh1-s-:
Hitt. ha:ssa- "hearth". From unextended *h2eh1-, Palaic
ha:ri "is hot".

*h2eh3-:
Hitt. ha:mi "I believe"

>What are the other "mixed" Hx_Hy
>we have ?

From memory, the word for "mouth".

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
miguelc@...