Re: hoopoe

>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> > > --- "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The initial /a-/ of the Spanish form is definitely
> > > > irregular but there may have been dissimulation,
> > > > which is common in Spanish, or the word may have passed
> > > > through Mozarabic and the /*u-/ reanalized as Arabic
> > > > al, with the -l subsequently lost. It could have been
> > > > from a variant Vulgar Latin or Greek form (there were
> > > > many Italian Greeks who settled in Spain). So, many
> > > > things could have happened.
> > > > The Berber word could be from North African Romance,
> > > > or maybe not. It could be a mangled word that was
> > > > originally onomatopoeic. BTW: do you know the Arabic
> > > > form?
> > > > =================
> > > >
> > > > Berber here Kabyle has
> > > > ic^ibib "hoopoe"
> > > > as^ebbub "(head )hair"
> > > > tas^ebbubt "tree summit"
> > > > tac^c^apupt "pompon"
> > > >
> > > > Obviously
> > > > this is the same root as
> > > > Arabic za?b "hair"
> > > >
> > > > It's interesting to contrast
> > > > LAtin u(:)pupa "hoopoe"
> > > > LAtin iuba "mane"
> > > >
> > > > Both from *dzo?p- "tuft of hair"
> > > > First is WEstern PIE
> > > > Second is an obvious Eastern PIE LW
> > > > displaying two eastern features :
> > > > dz > y
> > > > ?p > b
> > > >
> > > > Arnaud
> > > >
> > > > =============
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> > <gabaroo6958@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Perhaps the words for tuft of hair, pompon and tutf of
> > > tree --if they are related-- are from the word for
> > > hoopoe, which definitely has a tuft in the picture.
> > >
> >
> > You noticed it too? Perhaps the *dz could explain
> > the s-mobile, st-/t-
> > alternation in stuppa/top etc:
> >
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/54315
> >
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
>
> You never give up --
You never give up writing in top of postings.

> your idea sounds interesting but
> given the name is so close to the onomatopoeic call,
> it's doubtful.

I didn't know that. How do you call a tuft in English? How does it react?


> If you want to propose a *tup- form for the Berber
> word and try to relate it to IE, go ahead, if you
> think it'll work.
>

Arnaud proposed *dzo?p- "tuft of hair"
Ordbog over det danske sprog has
'top': "horse's mane, bang", Nw., Sw. topp, Sw.dial. tupp, ON toppr
m., MLG top, OHG zopf, German Zopf, OE topp, Eng. top [and then some
nonsense derivation from PIE dumbo, OHG zumpfo "penis"]

[cf. Sw. tupp "rooster". Also Da. 'den toppede høne' some country dance]

'tot': "collection (tuft) of flax, wool, hair, grass etc", MDa.
tot(te), Nw. tott, MSw. totte, Sw. tott. Might be explained as
developed from forms corr. to ON þáttr "tuft (of which rope consists;
part; section, OHG ta:ht "wick, line", German Docht "wick"; from Gemc.
*þe:h-, *þe:G-, ablauting to *þeh- from PIE *tek- "weave, plait" ...
If the word is joined with OHG zotto "tuft of hair", German Zotte
"tuft, strand", Du. todde, tod "rag" with gemination of Gmc. *tuþ-
belonging to PIE *d&-t, a -t-extension of *d&- etc "divide, cut to
pieces" ... a -d-extension must be assumed for NGmc. -t.


Complicated nonsense. Obvious loan. Note that the Gmc -h- corresponds
to the Arab. -?-

Considering Lat. stuppa "caulking" (and English stuff, stop, Da.
stoppe v. "mend (socks); clog, obstruct") the transfer is probably by sea.


Torsten