Re: Kossack's Conclusions

At 7:22:59 PM on Friday, March 21, 2008, tgpedersen wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> <BMScott@...> wrote:

>> At 2:21:05 PM on Friday, March 21, 2008, fournet.arnaud
>> wrote:

>>>> I was wondering also if Hoby might be *Hod-by "Chatti
>>>> village", there are some Hodby's in England.

>>> I thought British-Isles place-names in -by and -thorp
>>> were dating back to the Northmen.

>>> Can it be they are earlier and Angles/Saxons creations ?

>> Names in <-by> definitely show Scandinavian influence. The
>> situation with <-thorp> is more complicated. There was an
>> OE <þorp> ~ <þrop> 'a farm, a village', and it was used as a
>> place-name element before the arrival of the Scandinavians.
>> In the Danelaw the two elements are largely indistinguishable,
>> but the high density of <-thorp> names there suggests that a
>> great many of them are of Scandinavian origin. Outside the
>> Danelaw the OE element seems to be associated especially
>> with the West Saxons.

> The -thorp names are a Carolingian/Frankish invention and
> spread from there.

I have no reason to believe that. The fact that OE <þrop> ~
<þorp> is primarily associated with the West Saxons but is
*not* found in the far southwest suggests that it was going
out of use amongst the West Saxons by about 700 CE, which is
rather too early for them to be Carolingian.

[...]

>> I've not run across <Hodby> as a place-name, and without
>> early forms I'd not try to guess at an etymology for the
>> first element: there are far too many reasonable
>> possibilities.

> A lot of Hodby's came up when I googled.

Oh, it's certainly present as a surname; I doubt that you
saw a lot of instances of it as a place-name, however.
(Yes, the surname almost certainly is locative in origin,
but as I said, I'd not venture an etymology without some
early forms.)

Brian