Re: dhuga:ter

----- Original Message -----
From: "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Re: dhuga:ter


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Ryan
>
> Well, let us cut this down to manageable size.
>
> Prove to me than PIE *z existed.
>
> Patrick
> ======================

***

First, you may get a better reception from me than anyone else on the list
when you write about *dz

because I believe that PIE *dh and *th are derived from earlier *dz and *ts;
similarly, *bh from *bw; *ph from *pf; *gh from *gG; and *kh from *kx.

***


> I will limit the documentation
> to roots with *z and *dz as C1
> and labials as C2.
>
> I have stated that
>
> - Western PIE : Italic + Celtic
> have H2 as reflex of *z and *dz
> Anatolian too has H2
> - Eastern PIE : has *y
>
> NB : Greek is often mixed :
> H1 H2 y or z as results.
>
> Existence of *z and *dz
> can only be made clear
> by external evidence
> (Kartvelian, Semitic, etc)
>
> Cognates :
>
> *dzaw "wind"
> IE H2ew < *dz_w
> Skrt yaw-nika
> Arabic zawba&

***

Let us take these one at a time or we will get into a muddle.

Now this may seem to bog down the discussion but if we are not going to be
discussing apples and oranges rather than apples or oranges, tell me: what
language is *dzaw?

***



> *zam "bridle"
> Latin amentum
> Skrt yama
> Arabic zimam
>
> *zam "period of time, day"
> Greek he:mera
> Skrt ya:ma
> Arabic zaman
>
> *zam "to dig, shovel"
> Grec amê
> Slavic yama
> Egyptian zm- "bury"
>
> *dzam "to flow into another river"
> Greek amaros
> Hittite amiyar
> skrt yam-
> Chinese jian4 < *dzam
>
> *zab "cereal"
> Latin av-esna
> LAtin substrate sabaia
> Skrt yava
> Georgian zibziba
> Tokharian yap
> Greek zeia (anomic)
>
> *zabh "(male) sexe"
> Grec oiphô
> Skrt yabh
> Arabic zubb
>
> *zaw "(female) sexe
> Anatolic Greek sab-akh, sam-akh "vulva"
> Skrt yo-ni < *yaw-ni
>
> *dza?p "Upupa Epops"
> Funny word ! but it works.
> the meaning is "crest, mane"
> Arabic za?ba
>
> Latin u:pupa (o grade)
> Spanish abibula (zero grade)
> Hesychius apopa (standard)
> Greek Epo:ps (anomic)
> Kabyle itchibib
>
> This word is *not* imitative
> as proved by Kabyle
>
> You owe me apologies
> in clear and due form.
>
> Arnaud
> ================

***

Please state clearly what I have said to merit an apology.

If it is due, you will surely get it.


Patrick