Re: Kossack's Conclusions

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
> Interesting points. Didn't realize the Romans were
> still pushing aggressively that late.

The whole thing looks more defensive to me, Jung tells that the Romans
cut Schneisen, long free alleys, in the forests on the mountains on
both sides of the Wetterau valley, in order to be able to detect
Germani sneaking by.

> When was the
> "Wetterau limes" finally abandoned? I suppose already
> by the time of Marcus SAurelius.

According to this
http://www.saalburgmuseum.de/limes/orlim.htm
in 260 CE. This
http://www.novaroma.de/nr/provincia/karten/limes2.htm
implies the last version was built under Antoninus Pius.
BTW, check the color codes and the corresponding periods of the
various castella; it seems there are traces of Drusus' castella too in
the Wetterau (it's easier to make that out by the numbers than by the
colors).

> > > > > GK: Is the implication that Przeworsk here was
> > > > > also a victim of the Roman pushes?
> > > >
> > > > I don't think so. The Roman colonization campaigns
> > > > and later punitive expeditions did not cross the Elbe, AFAIK
> > >
> > > GK: Sorry. I did not mean the "mother Przeworsk"
> > > east of the Oder, but the "intrusive Przeworsk" in
> > > West Thuringia and in the Wetterau.
> >
> > That occurred to me later.
> >
> > You're not gonna believe this:
> > I remembered vaguely that read that one of the camps of Drusus's
> > expedition was placed in the Wetterau, which would at least partly
> > answer your question./etc./
>
> ****GK: Perhaps wholly re the Wetterau Przeworsk.
> Hachmann argued that signs of the "intrusion" were
> archaeologically gone before the end of the 1rst c.
> BCE Which fits in well with the Drusus campaigns.****
>
> I'm still not too clear as to the narrower area where
> Hachmann and Kossack discern the earliest archaeology
> of the Elbe-Germanic culture.

You and me both. They all get strangely fluffy around the subject.
Kossack's article is partly a response to the classical Kossinna view
that all Germany was always German (north of the Main at least), and
that gives him an opportunity to describe why Kossinna thought the
Elbe-Germani/Jastorf were the core of the German people, but he
doesn't offer an alternative view of what role he thinks they would
have played. I'll check what Peschel has to say.


Torsten