Re: Re[3]: [tied] Latin -idus as from dH- too

----- Original Message -----
From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 3:07 AM
Subject: [Courrier indsirable] Re: Re[3]: [tied] Latin -idus as from dH- too


On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:50:29 +0100, "fournet.arnaud"
<fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

>From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
>This is Anatolian. One has to be thankful for the data that
>we have.
>===============
>This is another way of
>saying we have no proof of contrast :
>is that what is to be understood
>from this statement ?
>Arnaud
>==============

Have you read Craig Melchert's "Anatolian Historical
Phonolgy"? Get back to me when you have.
MIguel
=====================

You've been hitting around the bush for a month.
It's becoming increasingly clear that
Anatolian does *not* contain any *positive*
indication that *e: existed,
What we have is neutral data,
Anatolian neither proves nor refutes
your theory.
But you are dodging this conclusion.
You're trying to change a neutral situation
into a "proof". I don't buy this.

Now,
next point,
you have suggested that
*ye(:)kwr could be kindof allophonic
of Germanic *lib
The other day, I bumped in a Siberian
word that could well the origin of *lib
I haven't been able to retrieve it.
Unfortunately.

I'm not competent enough in
Armenian to know what to think of sirt
Arnaud
====================

>Most languages have *yékWr.(t), Greek and Avestan have
>*yé:kWr.(t). Since it is easy to explain *yé:kWr.(t) >
>*yékWr.(t) and impossible to explain *yékWr.(t) > *yé:kWr.t,
>Greek and Avestan preserve an archaism.
>
>===========
You need a real explanation why
LAtin fer-ox and yecur are short
Not a cheap and fast "shortening" ad-hoc
in a language that created new long e:
Arnaud
===========

What needs to be explained is why in this word, and not in
other words of identical structure (like s'ákr.t (*k^ekWr/n)
"shit" or kápr.th "penis").
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal

=======================
Sanscrit *yakr is short.
Sanscrit *kaprth is short
s'akrt is short etc
There is nothing in need of
an explanation.
Inherited PIE *e > Skrt a.

This innovation e > e:
in words ending with -r
happened *only*
in Greek, Balto-Slavic and Avestan.

the e in yekwr. was lengthened
because it's the only lenghtenable vowel :
same in the other words.

Now we are back where we started :
Anatolian is neutral
LAtin is against your theory (iecur, ferox)
The few words with e: are Greek
and Balto-slavic words ending in -r
where lengthening of e can be explained
because it's the only lengthenable vowel
in these words : yekwr.-s > *ye:kwr.

I'm not ready to project in Pre-PIE
a feature that is limited to three languages
and can be explained in two lines as
a lengthening compensation.

Arnaud
============