Re: Torsten's theory reviewed

From: tgpedersen
Message: 55292
Date: 2008-03-16

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> > <gknysh@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> > > > <gknysh@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Ariovistus himself only says that his own
> > > > > > > people (the original 15,000 of what had become a
> > > > > > > "German" force of some 120,000 by 58 BCE) had been in
> > > > > > > Gaul since ca. 72 BCE,
> > > > > > OK.
> > > > > > > and that they had left their
> > > > > > > home AND THEIR PEOPLE to seek success in Gaul.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where in DBG?
> > > > >
> > > > > GK: DBG 1.44.2: "transisse* Rhenum sese non sua
> > > > > sponte, sed rogatum et arcessitum* a Gallis; non
> > > > > sine* magna* spe magnisque praemiis* domum propinquosque
> > > > > reliquisse; "
> > > >
> > > > He. A. talks of himself. And 'propinquos' "those
> > > > nearest" are his
> > > > relatives.
> > >
> > > ****GK: DBG 1.36.6-7: "neminem secum* [=Ariovistus
> > > GK]sine sua pernicie contendisse. [7] Cum vellet,
> > > congrederetur*: intellecturum quid invicti Germani,
> > > exercitatissimi in armis, qui inter* annos XIIII
> > > tectum non subissent, virtute possent." He is talking
> > > about himself and his troops. Ditto in 1.44. And
> > > "propinqui" means "neighbours" as well as "relatives".
> > > An army of 15,000 has plenty of both. EMDW.****
> >
> > 1.44 'Ariovistus briefly replied to the demands of Caesar; but
> > expatiated largely on his own virtues, "that he had crossed the
> > Rhine not of his own accord, but on being invited and sent
> > for by the Gauls; that he had not left home and kindred without
> > great expectations and great rewards..."'. sese ... transisse acc
> > cum inf "that he (himself) had crossed", rogatum, arcessitum
> > m.acc.sg. He talks of himself only.
> >
> >
> > Torsten
>
> ****GK: I see. So back in 72 BCE he came to Gaul with
> 15,000 uninvited companions, much to the dismay of the
> Gauls who had only invited him? And in 1.36 when he is
> taunting Caesar about taking him on he's really
> talking about a duel, and the rest of the sentence is
> an accidental and meaningless afterthought...Very
> qualitative argumentation indeed.

The target of your heavy sarcasm, Caesar, can't hear you. Check the
text for yourself:
http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.1.1.html


> Anyway,the main
> point,viz., the untenability of your contention about
> Przeworsk as creating and spreading Germanic speech
> and literature should be pretty clear by now.

Oh. When did that happen?

> I'm off to do better things.****


And I was just about to ask you about which one of the layers of heavy
militarizaton of Przeworsk you think would fit Ariovist's expedition?
My Polish and Russian is worse than your German, so, I promise to be nice?


Torsten





Torsten