From: tgpedersen
Message: 55292
Date: 2008-03-16
>The target of your heavy sarcasm, Caesar, can't hear you. Check the
>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> > <gknysh@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh
> > > > <gknysh@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Ariovistus himself only says that his own
> > > > > > > people (the original 15,000 of what had become a
> > > > > > > "German" force of some 120,000 by 58 BCE) had been in
> > > > > > > Gaul since ca. 72 BCE,
> > > > > > OK.
> > > > > > > and that they had left their
> > > > > > > home AND THEIR PEOPLE to seek success in Gaul.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where in DBG?
> > > > >
> > > > > GK: DBG 1.44.2: "transisse* Rhenum sese non sua
> > > > > sponte, sed rogatum et arcessitum* a Gallis; non
> > > > > sine* magna* spe magnisque praemiis* domum propinquosque
> > > > > reliquisse; "
> > > >
> > > > He. A. talks of himself. And 'propinquos' "those
> > > > nearest" are his
> > > > relatives.
> > >
> > > ****GK: DBG 1.36.6-7: "neminem secum* [=Ariovistus
> > > GK]sine sua pernicie contendisse. [7] Cum vellet,
> > > congrederetur*: intellecturum quid invicti Germani,
> > > exercitatissimi in armis, qui inter* annos XIIII
> > > tectum non subissent, virtute possent." He is talking
> > > about himself and his troops. Ditto in 1.44. And
> > > "propinqui" means "neighbours" as well as "relatives".
> > > An army of 15,000 has plenty of both. EMDW.****
> >
> > 1.44 'Ariovistus briefly replied to the demands of Caesar; but
> > expatiated largely on his own virtues, "that he had crossed the
> > Rhine not of his own accord, but on being invited and sent
> > for by the Gauls; that he had not left home and kindred without
> > great expectations and great rewards..."'. sese ... transisse acc
> > cum inf "that he (himself) had crossed", rogatum, arcessitum
> > m.acc.sg. He talks of himself only.
> >
> >
> > Torsten
>
> ****GK: I see. So back in 72 BCE he came to Gaul with
> 15,000 uninvited companions, much to the dismay of the
> Gauls who had only invited him? And in 1.36 when he is
> taunting Caesar about taking him on he's really
> talking about a duel, and the rest of the sentence is
> an accidental and meaningless afterthought...Very
> qualitative argumentation indeed.
> Anyway,the mainOh. When did that happen?
> point,viz., the untenability of your contention about
> Przeworsk as creating and spreading Germanic speech
> and literature should be pretty clear by now.
> I'm off to do better things.****And I was just about to ask you about which one of the layers of heavy