Re: Yeneseic and Na-Dene

From: tgpedersen
Message: 54967
Date: 2008-03-10

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen
>
>
> EDWIN G. PULLEYBLANK:
> Central Asia and Non-Chinese Peoples of Ancient China
>
> IV The Chinese and Their Neighbors in Prehistoric and Early Historic
> Times, p 451
> "
> The few Hsiung-nu words transcribed in Chinese characters for which
> semantic glosses are supplied show a number of striking contacts
> with Kettish or with recorded items of vocabulary from the extinct
> Palaeo-Siberian languages.
> ===================
> Do you have these words ?
> or a reference ?

These must be it
Ligeti, Louis, 1950.
'Mots de civilisation de Haute Asie en transcription,'
Acta Orientalia Hungarica 1: 141-188.

Pulleyblank, Edwin G. 1962.
'The Consonantal System of Old Chinese,'
Asia Major 9:58-144, 206-265.

> =================
>
>
> XIII EARLY CONTACTS BETWEEN INDO-EUROPEANS AND CHINESE, p 15
> "
>
> In my 1962 article, following a suggestion in Ligeti (1950),
> I proposed a connection between the Xiongnu language and the
> Yeniseian languages now represented by one sole survivor, Ket, but
> formerly more widely spoken in southern Siberia. Though some of the
> etymological connections I proposed between Yeniseian words and
> Xiongnu words in Chinese transcription still seem to me quite
> plausible, I never regarded this idea as more than an interesting
> hypothesis for further research.
> ===============
>
> If the identity proposed between the Huns and the Hsiung-nu/Xiongnu
> holds, perhaps we should look for unexplained Germanic words in Ket?
>
> Torsten
>
> ============
>
> There are at least four clear words :
>
> Germanic *skip-am "ship" = PY *qa?p
> Germanic *dannwo "fir-tree" = PY *dinje
> Germanic *laub "leaf" = PY *jeep
> Germanic *sku:ra "rain" = PY *xur
>
> and PY *sir "summer" is interesting
> in connection with *ya:r "year".
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE597.html
> A better reconstruction is *zar.
>
> The word *laub is probably a loanword
> as Chinese has *ngap and Algonkin has niip.
> This word does not look like a possible cognate.

Pulleyblank's been there too:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/44457

And BTW, if you're looking for weird Asian stuff in Germanic, you
could try Odin's by-names

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_of_Odin

I tried demystifying some myself
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/48665
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/48664
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/19782
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/12607

etc (searching in the archives with 'Odin names Torsten')


Torsten