Re: Grimm shift as starting point of "Germanic" (Was:Re: Strange w

From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 54694
Date: 2008-03-06

----- Original Message -----
From: "george knysh" <gknysh@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Grimm shift as starting point of "Germanic" (Was:Re:
Strange words out of place


>
> --- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

<snip>

> ****GK: Are you saying that ALL the characteristics
> which distinguish Germanic from other IE linguistic
> families developed AFTER the Grimm shift (certainly
> one of the most spectacular and differentiating of
> these characteristics)? From what I've read, that's
> not true. Even such a simple source as the Wikipedia
> article on "Germanic languages" denies it.
>
> Do the other fine linguists on cybalist agree with you
> on this point?****
>
> (Rest later)

***

I will not define myself as a "fine linguist" but I can offer an opinion
which those who are will ratify, I think.

The changes brought about by the Grimm shift are indisputable data.

But Germanic can also be identified by the vocabulary items unique to it
that were not inherited (we believe) from (P)IE; whether individuals of
these are pre- or post-Grimm is an interesting question.

More difficult is to note grammatical and syntactical divergences from what
we think are PIE patterns, and try to time them.

So far as I know, no one has successfully identified one or more languages
which might have had these effects on what was to become Germanic.


Patrick

***