Re: Finnish KASKA

From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
Message: 54006
Date: 2008-02-22

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:17:53 +0100, Piotr Gasiorowski
<gpiotr@...> wrote:

>On 2008-02-22 07:43, Miguel Carrasquer Vidal wrote:
>
>> Yes. What I have trouble with is seeing this as the result
>> of a phonetic development (soundlaw). The thematic vowel is
>> /e/ before unvoiced (including final) and /o/ before voiced,
>> independent of the stress. We have o-stems stressed on the
>> root as well as on the thematic vowel, both in the nominal
>> and verbal systems (*bhóros, *bhorós; *bhére-, tudé-). If
>> the thematic vowel is e/o when unstressed (as in *bhór-o-s,
>> *bhér-e-ti), what room is there for unstressed -i-? There is
>> only the possibility that unstressed thematic vowels which
>> appear as e/o were originally stressed, and had vr.ddhi of
>> the root vowel (which caused the accent to shift back): a
>> form like *bhér-e- would then come from original **bha:r-á-.
>> I believe that is indeed the explanation for barytone
>> e-grade thematic forms. But if we apply this rule
>> consistently, it seems as if the whole basis for unstressed
>> thematic vowels falls away: at that pre-stage of PIE, the
>> definition of the thematic vowel would have included
>> carrying the stress.
>
>I'd prefer a solution which would also account for the distribution of
>*e and *i in the reduplication syllable. We have *sí-sd-e/o-,
>*g^í-g^n(h1)-e/o-, etc., with and *i that _must_ be somehow explained
>phonetically. It's quite obvious that the stress was originally on the
>thematic vowel (LIV and many authors even reconstruct the PIE stem as
>*si-sd-é/ó-, against whatever evidence there is), and that there was a
>time when the reduplicated stem was something like **s&-s&d-é-, with the
>first reduced vowel two syllables away from the location of stress. I
>imagine the reduction of *e/o to *i in compounds to have been something
>similar: at some "early PIE" stage predating the retraction of the
>accent to pretonic full vowels, stress was already initial in some major
>types of compounds, so the second element in the *kóm-moini- type became
>destressed, which resulted in the phonetic weakening of the thematic
>vowel. The change of **bHe(:)r-é- to *bHér-e- is more recent (as is
>**si-sd-é- > *sí-sd-e-), which is why the thematic vowel retains its
>full quality.

That might work (not for *dwi-, though), I'll think about
it.

The reduplication vowel is not the thematic vowel, but since
loss of the reduplication vowel sort of takes away the whole
point of the reduplication, it does have some kind of
built-in zero-grade resistence.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
miguelc@...