Re: Finnish KASKA

Jouppe,

let me ask it another way:

in your view were *ö and *ü part of the earliest PU vowel inventory?


Patrick

----- Original Message -----
From: "jouppe" <jouppe@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:38 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Finnish KASKA


I am not sure I understand the question.

There is a fair amount of irregularities in uralic vowel
correspondancies. We may have to assume borrowings between dialects,
separate borrowings from IE or undiscovered exceptional phonological
rules.

This is the first time I hear of umlaut though. I frankly don't think
it is possible to increase the economy of interpretation by this
invention. Finnic also went the other way *kektä or *käktä became
Finnish kaksi '2' for example. Nobody knows why. But Indo-
Europeanists would know that numerals are tricky.

Jouppe

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
wrote:
>
> Jouppe,
>
> do you think umlauted vowels were original (an oxymoron, of course)?
>
> Patrick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jouppe" <jouppe@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 12:47 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Finnish KASKA
>
>
> The list of words I presented: appi, jousi, kalki, koski and kusi
are
> not reconstructions but real words in a real language. They also
> constitute solid counter evidence to your 'fallen-out-of-the-sky'
> umlaut hypothesis. Where did it come from?
>
> Jouppe
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud"
> <fournet.arnaud@> wrote:
> >
> > Very clever but you reveal your ignorance again:
> >
> > Look for ex. at appi 'father-in-law'. jousi 'bow', kalki 'hair,
down
> > straw', koski 'rapids' and kusi 'urine' and their reconstruction
in
> > the table: http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/prefinnic.htm
> > Ponder and learn.
> >
> > And 'kaski' was of course not PU, it was borrowed in the west
later.
> >
> > Jouppe
> > =================
> >
> > You are blithely taking
> > standard PU reconstructions for gold.
> > Some associations of vowels are impossible :
> >
> > a > a
> > a_i > ä_i
> >
> > o > o
> > o _i > ö_i
> >
> > u > u
> > u_i > y_i
> >
> > Western PU has the same kind of umlaut
> > as German has.
> > But this does not apply to Kant / MAns
> >
> > Your reconstruction with final -i
> > and a o u
> > as main vowels are just impossible.
> >
> > Arnaud
> > ===================
> >
>