Re: PIE *a -- a preliminary checklist

jyvä from yewos is a perfect example of a plain stem borrowing. Proto-
uralic stems were either i/ï-stems or a/ä-stems. Jyvä- is an a/ä-stem.

Counter examples appeared in the language gradually, Proto-Finnic
already happily borrowed suffixes. The tendency was gradual.

Tapani Salminen is not Hungarian, not that I necessarily need to
agree completely with his writings, but the family tree is very
controversial, in many branches. The Finno-Volgaic node may already
be declared dead. Mari is just as different as Permian.

Jouppe

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud"
<fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

>
>
> > ========
> > What does pre-Finnic mean for you ?
> > Arnaud
> > ===============
>
> I use 'Pre-Finnic' on my site because all reconstruction levels
> between Proto-Uralic and Late Proto-Finnic (='Proto-Baltic-Finnic')
> are controversial. The earliest intermediate 'Pre-Finnic'
> reconstruction level would be (*)*Proto-Finno-Ugric. The youngest
> level would be (*)*Proto-Finno-Saami. For instance here
> http://www.helsinki.fi/~tasalmin/kuzn.html you will find the

harshest

> critisism against these concepts. And as I say, I avoid using them,
> sometimes I refer to western Finno-Permic, meaning all combinations
> of Finno-Saami-Mordva.
>
> Jouppe
> ====================
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uralic_languages
>
> The classification tree is extremely clear.
> And my opinion is it is correct.
> Some Hungarians have strange ideas
> about what changes should be made.
> Uselessly strange ideas.
> There is nothing to change.
>
> Arnaud
> ===============
> > And you are mixing up
> > Finnish loanwords from Baltic
> > older loanwords from Indo-Iranian
>
> Borrowing into the form of plain stem has been going on throughout
> the Pre-Finnic period, the more the earlier. In this case some
> examples are pre-germanic, others pre-aryan. That is not the point
> here. The receiving language has this feature.
>
> Jouppe
>
> ====================
>
> No,
> one of the ancient loanwords is *yewos
> also existing in Samoyedic
> which appears in Finnish as jyvä
>
> Your theory of lost syllables does not hold water.
>
> Arnaud
>
> ==================
>
> By the way Finnic does not have 'roots', only stems.
> Jouppe
>
> ===============
>
> And what about Finnish trees ?
>
> Arnaud
> ================
>