From: jouppe
Message: 53505
Date: 2008-02-17
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "jouppe" <jouppe@> wrote:
> >
> > > BTW, interestingly, he has
> > > http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/lexicon.htm
> > > both Fi. kalja "weak beer" and Fi. olut "beer" corresponding to
the
> > > PIE "ale" word. Now the latter is an areal word, covering
Germanic,
> > > Baltic, Baltic Finnic and Slavic, it seems it must have
belonged to
> > > some erased culture of the area. So did the older loan survive
two
> > > invasions?
>
> > The two words are semantically distinguishable, even
today. 'kalja'
> > is an artesanal home made (weak) beer. 'olut' is a beer made from
raw
> > materials and by techniques learned from iron age foreigners.
> >
> True, but that was not my point. If 'olut' is an areal substrate
word
> then it was picked up by the Finns when they arrived in their
present
> territory, which means they picked up 'kalja' somewhere else. The
> reason I think Germanic *aluĆ¾- (and the corresponding roots in
Baltic
> and Slavic) is probably a loan from the substrate, but PIE language
of
> the area, from *leu- "dissolve" (that sense would also take care of
> the semantic gap to the proposed cognate, Latin alu:men, Germ.
Alun),
> with an a- prefix as in Schrijver's substrate 'bird language'
(Germn.
> Amsel, Ameise, Du. merle, mier).
> However, as to the the PIE-ness of *leu itself, see
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/44457
>
>
> Torsten
>