From: Rick McCallister
Message: 53364
Date: 2008-02-16
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister____________________________________________________________________________________
> <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:
> >
> > It's more a case of not caring. Anything that
> doesn't
> > agree with his message gets twisted or ignored.
> He's
> > like the tobacco companies regarding lung cancer,
> the
> > oil companies regarding global warming, the
> > creationist lunatics. He's true believer and I'm
> sure
> > he's afraid that he doubted his dogma for one
> second
> > that he would be reborn as a cockroach.
>
> No I am not afraid to post on Cybalist as a
> cockroach. I will have
> plenty of company.
>
> M. Kelkar
>
>
> >
> > --- "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:
> >
> > > At 6:19:47 PM on Friday, February 15, 2008,
> > > mkelkar2003
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr
> Gasiorowski
> > > > <gpiotr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> On 2008-02-15 22:44, mkelkar2003 wrote:
> > >
> > > >>> The best fit model obtained by Ringe et. al.
> > > fits the
> > > >>> above secnerio very well.
> > >
> > > >> No, it doesn't. In all their trees the first
> > > split is
> > > >> between Anatolian and "non-Anatolian IE", and
> > > then
> > > >> non-Anatolian IE splits into Tocharian and
> "the
> > > rest" --
> > > >> the crown group of IE. None of the analyses
> > > suggests
> > > >> anything corresponding to Elst's "zone A" or
> to
> > > >> "Tocharo-Italo-Celtic".
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > >>> Elst's (2000) Group A would be far right in
> Fig
> > > 12 and
> > > >>> Group B far left.
> > >
> > > >> This reading of the tree proves that you
> don't
> > > even
> > > >> understand what a phylogeny means.
> > >
> > > > I am not talking about splitting Fig 12 in the
> > > middle! Follow the
> > > > diagram in Fig 12 from right to left
> > >
> > > > "Initially, there was a single PIE language.
> > >
> > > > That is the highest point where the tree
> begins.
> > >
> > > > 2) The first division of PIE yielded two
> dialect
> > > groups,
> > > > which will be called A and B. Originally they
> > > co-existed
> > > > in the same area, and influenced each other,
> but
> > > > geographical separation put an end to this
> > > interaction.
> > >
> > > > Group A and B are BEFORE Anatolian splits off.
>
> > >
> > > The tree shows no such split. The very first
> split
> > > shown in
> > > this tree is between Anatolian, on the one hand,
> and
> > > everything else, on the other.
> > >
> > > > Group A is HI, LU, LY, TB, TA, OI, WE, LA, OS,
> UM
> > >
> > > > Group B is the remainder
> > >
> > > The tree does not show a split between HI, LU,
> LY,
> > > TB, TA,
> > > OI, WE, LA, OS, and UM, on the one hand, and
> > > everything
> > > else, on the other.
> > >
> > > > 3) In zone A, one dialect split off, probably
> by
> > > > geographical separation (whether it was its
> own
> > > speakers
> > > > or those of the other dialects who emigrated
> from
> > > the
> > > > Urheimat, is not yet at issue), and went on to
> > > develop
> > > > separately and become Anatolian.
> > >
> > > > That is the first separation corrosponding to
> the
> > > first
> > > > branch HI, LU, LY.
> > >
> > > > 4) The remainder of the A group acquired the
> > > distinctive
> > > > characteristics of the Tocharo-Italo-Celtic
> > > subgroup.
> > >
> > > What the tree shows is Anatolian splitting from
> > > everything
> > > else. It does not show your A and B groups at
> all.
> > > It also
> > > does not show a Tocharo-Italo-Celtic group: the
> only
> > > group
> > > that it shows that contains all of OS, UM, LA,
> OI,
> > > WE, TB,
> > > and TA is the group that contains *all* of the
> > > non-Anatolian
> > > dialects.
> > >
> > > There's no point bothering with the rest.
> Piotr's
> > > right:
> > > you clearly don't understand what you're looking
> at
> > > here.
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.____________________________________________________________________________________
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
>
>
>