Re: Meaning of Aryan: now, "white people"?

From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 53139
Date: 2008-02-14

Apparently Wikipedia does not buy into this fantastical story which is
a corolloary of the now defunct Aryan Invasion Theory. The "arya"
slaves of yester years become arya the nobles obviously after
slaughtering the dark skinned Indian dasyus!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya

Here Koenraad Elst squares off the IE-Uralic contact into an Indian
Homeland scenerio thus:

"In that case, two alternative explanations are equally sustainable.
Imagine the first waves of emigrants from India, taking most of the
ancestor-dialects of the various branches of the IE family with them,
through the Oxus valley to the Wolga plain and beyond. With the
exception of Tokharic which remained in the area, they did not come in
contact with Uralic, or when they did, they linguistically swallowed
this marginal Uralic-speaking population without allowing it much
substratal influence. Only the Slavic branch of IE shows some
substratal influence from Uralic (and even this is disputed), a fact
which is neatly compatible with an India-to-Europe migration: an
Uralic-speaking tribe in the peri-Caspian region got assimilated in
the westwardly expanding IE-speaking population.

===============
Definitely wrong.

Toharian displays a complete Uralization of local cases.
Striking for anyone who knows any one Uralic language.

Germanic has loanwords from Uralic
*kamti > gmc *hand
*kunda > gmc *hunt

Arnaud
=============

It was the Iranians who came in contact with Uralic on a large scale,

============
Wrong

Mordin vrgaz < vrk is sanscrit.

Arnaud
================
partly because they filled up the whole of Central Asia and (in the
Scythian expansion) even Eastern Europe as far as Western Ukraine and
Belarus, where an older Slavic population subsisted and adopted a lot
of Iranian vocabulary, just as the Uralic population to its northeast
did; and partly because the Uralic-speaking people were moving
westward through the Urals region in a movement parallel to the
Iranian westward expansion. At any rate, the Iranian influence is
uncontroversial and easily compatible with any IE Urheimat scenario."

http://www.bharatvani.org/books/ait/ch34.htm

The following is intersting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language

"Often quoted loan examples are kuningas "king" and ruhtinas "prince,
high ranking nobleman" from Germanic *kuningaz and *druhtinaz, but
another example is äiti "mother", from Gothic eiþai, which is
interesting because borrowing of close-kinship vocabulary is a rare
phenomenon.
===========
Wrong.

French mamy and papy "grand-mother" and "grand-father"
are borrowed from English.

Mordvin has a tataric system of words
opposing younger and elder members of the same family.

Arnaud
==============

That fact that close kinship vocabularly can be borrowed puts a dent
into the idea of genetically separated families especially if they
occupay a vast contigous area like Eurasia. Morover were no loand
from Uralic into IE which starnge if these langauges were in mutual
conntact. More likely as Elst says orya is a late loan from the
Iranians who moved into Central Asia.

M. Kelkar
========

What ""dent"" ?

You recently lost your teeth ?

Arnaud

===============