--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <BMScott@...> wrote:
>
> At 12:05:37 PM on Thursday, February 14, 2008,
> fournet.arnaud wrote:
>
> >> There is a Finnish <ahku> that I've seen glossed as
> >> 'Asche' and as 'ash ball' that looks like a borrowing of
> >> PGmc. *asko:n, and an <ahjo> 'forge' from PGmc. *asjo:n
> >> 'forge' (ON <esja> 'Schieferart, Seifenstein zum
> >> Schmieden benutzt'), both from *h2as- 'to burn, to glow'.
Dansk etymologisk ordbog:
esse "fireplace esp. in smithy"; Oda esiæ, No. esse, No.dial. esja, Sw
ässja, OHG essa, Germ. Esse; from Gmc. *asjo:n; cf Finnish loan ahjo.
To IE *á(:)s- "burn, glow"...
> >> If <kaski> belongs here at all, it seems to me that it
> >> must be from a substantially older layer of borrowing.
>
> > On account of Finnish regular -s- > h
> > and irregular maintenance of -s- > -s-
>
> > I would say that kaski must be
> > a Finnish *recent* loanword.
> > not an older layer.
>
> I'm not convinced that it belongs here at all, but if it
> does, it can't be recent: there's no source for the initial
> /k/.
>
> > It does not look like a pre-Saami word
> > listed by Ante Aikio.
>
> > Maybe *kaw "burn" could be a better source
> > that *H2as-
>
> I presume that this is Watkins' *ka:u-/*ka:w- < *kah2u-.
>
> > *kaw-s-k- => kask-
> > Cf. Greek kau-s-tos
>
> > Is there Baltic reflexes for *kaw ?
>
> Pokorny thought so: Lith. <ku:léti> 'brandig werden, vom
> Getreide', <ku:le~> 'Getreidebrand'.
This is a different *(h)aus-, I thought it might be interesting
anyway: (Møller again)
"
8 aw- in
sanskr. ávati 'freut sich, hilft, schützt',
lat. ave: 'sei gegrüßt' mit Inf. ave:re,
sanskr. ávas n. 'Befriedigung, Gunst, Beistand'
avest. avah- n. 'Hilfe', (in Komp.) 'Ergötzen, Behagen',
dehnstufig gr. ene:é:s (< *-a:we:s) 'wohlwollend, milde';
+ y- (vgl. semit. H.-p-y-, s. u.) in
sanskr. ávi- 'günstig', gall. avi- 'gut',
got. in avi-liuþ 'Danksagung', gr. ai~tas 'Freund, Geliebter';
+ Laryngalerweiterung idg. awa-, reduz. u:-, in
sanskr. avitár- 'Gönner',
u:tí- 'Hilfe, Förderung',
ú:ma- 'schützend, Schützer, Helfer';
wahrscheinlich < voridg. H.-p-
== semit. *H.-p-,
+ w-, y- (vgl. idg. awi-, s. o.)
Perf. arab. H.afiya (bi-hi)
'he showed (him) much honour and kindness or goodness, behaved
(towards him) with affection, manifested joy or pleasure and was
careful (respecting his case)',
H.afi:yun, H.a:fin 'manifesting joy or pleasure (at meeting another)'
etc.;
+ vorsemit. D.-
hebr. intr. Ha:Pe:s. 'Gefallen haben (be an)',
HèPæs. 'Gefallen, Interesse (be an), Sorge, Wunsch',
neuhebr. 'Wunschobjekt',
syr. HePat. 'operam navavit, studuit (rei)',
HePit.å: 'studiosus', -uTå: 'Studium',
arab. H.afiz.a 'he took care of, guarded (-hu it)',
H.a:fiz.un 'guarding, taking care of, keeper, custos',
ma-H.fu:z.un, H.afi:z.un
'taken care of, because of the high estimation in which it is held',
H.afi:z.atun 'the defence of those persons or things that one is bound
to honour and to defend, ardor animi in tuenda familia'.
9 *aw- 'schöpfen' (< voridg. H.-p-),
+ s- idg. aws-,
gr. aúo: 'schöpfe, entnehme',
lat. haurio 1) 'schöpfe'
mhd. æ:sen mnd. o:sen 'ausschöpfen',
an. ausa dass. schwed. ösa dän. øse 'schöpfen, gießen' und
dän. intr. (vom Regen) 'in Strömen gießen',
= semit. *H.-p-,
+ s^´- (< vorsemit. K.^-)
arab. intr. H.afis^a '(the cloud) poured down showers',
trans. H.afas^a 'eduxit (aquam), he collected (water)'
und übertragen 'collegit (opes)';
+ l- arab. H.afala '(the sky) poured torrents of rain,
(tears) flowed abundantly,
(water, milk in the udder or breast, tears) became copious',
II 'he collected (water), caused (milk in the udder) to collect'.
...
1) Lat. h in hauri:re, have:re (s. 8aw-) ist vielleicht dialektisch
erhaltenes voridg. H., vgl. die Note zu 3ar- S. 16. (Ebenso lat. h für
voridg. A. in ha:la:re (s. ans-) ?)
"
Both verbs have a 'history' in the archives of flirting with foreign
language families
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/15541
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/5700
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/33382
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/33417
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/36632
Torsten