From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 52122
Date: 2008-01-30
----- Original Message -----
From: "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Courrier indésirable] Re: [tied] Re: PS Emphatics
>
> ***
>
> Perhaps you have but I have not. I still believe the circumstances favor
> gold (nuggets) being in very, very early use.
>
> ***
> Professionnal archeologists disagree.
> Early cannot be much more than maybe - 5000.
> Arnaud
> ================
***
Professional archaeologists often disagree among themselves. All experts do,
and that is healthy.
How early would gold use have to be to satisfy your criteria; remember,
'smelt' was once probably 'melt' for ice, fat, perishable food, etc.
***
> > Instead, they used *Hawes-, 'dawn(-colored thing)' and *g^hel-dh-,
> > 'shiny-nugget'.
> > ==========
> > Dawn is another word :
> > H2_w here is Arabic s?ab-aH "morning".
> > Arnaud
> > ===============
>
> Absolutely 100% wrong. Arabic <S> is PIE *t, and from Nostratic *tHu.
> ==============
> Arabic s? definitely cannot be PIE *t.
> And if *th is an aspirated consonant
> then I make you aware that glottalized and aspirated
> are as far away as can be in phonology.
> =================
***
At risk of embarrassing you, 'morning' has emphatic <S>/
Yes, glottalized and aspirated are - in other word the _ideal_ contrast for
ease of comprehension.
***
> There is no reason to hyphenate <SabâH>; it is a triliteral.
> ================
> I was making clear that I compare PIE *H2_w with *s?_b
> and -H is incremental.
> ==============
***
Analysis into increments has to be justified not arbitrary.
***
> I know of no PIE cognate.
> As for *Hawes-, what do you think its ultimate meaning is if
> 'dawn-colored'?
> Patrick
> =============
> That's an interesting question.
> Egyptian has a word for month
> which is 3_b_d
> I consider that this "vulture" 3 is <s?>
> even though most people hold it to be R.
> then If we *dare* compare :
> PIE : H2_w "dawn"
> Arabic : s?_b-H "morning"
> with
> Egyptian : 3_b_d "month"
> This Egyptian word is hard to compare with something else.
> It's just an attempt.
***
The word 3bd is written with a rib.
What might that tell you?
Are new moons rib-shaped crescents?
The experts are right about <3>; I feel I was instrumental in making that
correction by my advocacy of it at the Oriental Institute.
***
> Maybe something like "rise of the sun or moon"
> could be the ultimate meaning.
> BUT
> we can just be happy with "morning"
> and discard Egyptian.
> Arnaud
> =================
***
I am not happy to throw away a bone I cannot eat. I gnaw on it.
By the way, I think *HA-FHE-SHA (*Ha(:)we(:)s-) is the state associated with
the spider in the sky, i.e. the 'sun', similar to the base of
*sa(:)we(:)-l/n- - 'warmth'.
Patrick
***