From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 52083
Date: 2008-01-30
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick McCallister" <gabaroo6958@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Limitations of the comparative method
> The question was what the Semitic form is
> I've seen it consistently listed as Semitic --possibly
> but not necessarily Canaanitic. But Palmer and others
> I've read since just state that without giving the
> source
> Haruz does look pretty close but if it's a loanword
> it's probably pre-classic, i.e. from the time when the
> Phoenicians et al started trading with the Greeks. The
> problem is that Greek <x> was aspirated /kh/, not a
> good match for Hebrew /h/ or even /x/. Greek also had
> /h/ in the form of Heta /<H> early on and later as
> <'>. So the spelling is a bit odd, but it could have
> come via an intermediate word.
> So why a loanword for "gold"? Other languages had
> loanwords for "silver" and other metals, so why not
> gold for Greek
>
>
> --- Patrick Ryan <proto-language@...> wrote:
>
> > If you had the answer, why did you bother asking the
> > question?
> >
> > Also, I did not say that xrusos was from PIE; only
> > that Greek /x/ generally
> > derives from PIE *gh.
> >
> > I have written that I am currently working on a
> > Proto-Afrasian corrected
> > phonology based on the material in Orel & Stobova so
> > who says I am only
> > working with Arabic? You? How would you know?
> >
> > You may believe if you choose that xrusos comes from
> > Hebrew Harûz but I
> > prefer to believe that it is a unique derivation
> > from PIE *ghre:u-(**s-).
> > Why would the Greeks need to borrow a word for
> > 'gold'?
> >
> > Do you have access to the argumentation supporting
> > it as a loan?
> >
> > I could perhaps be convinced.
> >
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick McCallister" <gabaroo6958@...>
> > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Limitations of the
> > comparative method
> >
> >
> > > Greek xrusos is a loanword from Semitic, it's not
> > from
> > > IE anything
> > > That's why you need to know more than just Arabic
> > if
> > > you want to link Arabic to IE
> > >
> > > --- Patrick Ryan <proto-language@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is not dhaHab (dotted-h) but dahab, simple h.
> > > >
> > > > Greek x generally cpmes from PIE *gh.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Patrick
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Rick McCallister" <gabaroo6958@...>
> > > > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:08 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Limitations of the
> > > > comparative method
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > re: gold
> > > > > Arabic, as I remember is dhaHab and Tigrinya
> > is
> > > > dahab
> > > > > --I had a friend in college with that name
> > > > > Greek xrusos is supposed from Phoenician. What
> > was
> > > > the
> > > > > source?
> > > > > It might fit in to your *Ha(:)w(e)s-
> > > > >
> > > > > --- "fournet.arnaud"
> > <fournet.arnaud@...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > ***
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The better reconstruction for Latin aurum,
> > > > 'gold',
> > > > > > is *Ha(:)w(e)s-,
> > > > > > > 'illuminate', the color associated with
> > > > _golden_
> > > > > > dawn as Pokorny so
> > > > > > > correctly has it.
> > > > > > =========
> > > > > > Tsalam? t?ob
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This reconstruction does not conflict with
> > > > *zahav
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Arnaud
> > > > > > ================
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To abstract "H2_H2_w" from zahab (what is
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > Hebrew? Arabic has kept
> > > > > > > it all together much more smartly) is
> > > > unbelievably
> > > > > > bizarre and
> > > > > > > incontrovertibly unjustifed.
> > > > > > ==========
> > > > > > I am afraid you have not looked at data
> > > > carefully
> > > > > > enough
> > > > > > What about :
> > > > > > Georgian zibziba "wheat"
> > > > > > Latin av-esna "oats"
> > > > > > Hittite seppi [sebi] "wheat"
> > > > > > LAtin (substrate) sab-aia "bier"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hittite keeps trace of -z- as -s-
> > > > > > and of -dz- as -zz-.
> > > > > > Look at Hittite once again
> > > > > > now that you have the key.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Arnaud
> > > > > > ==============
> > > > > > > Pray tell where a table of correspondences
> > > > > > enabling anything like what was
> > > > > > > reconstructed is published. I will buy one
> > > > because
> > > > > > it certainly will be
> > > > > > > rare.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Patrick
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ***
> > > > > > ========
> > > > > > Just be patient.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Arnaud
> > > > > > ===========
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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