Re: IS PIE * DERU EXCLUSIVELY INDO-EUROPEAN ?

From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 52076
Date: 2008-01-30

> One difference between my system or correspondences and Bomhard's is the I
> do _not_ believe in the co-existence of Nostratic *t? and *d.
> ==============
> Tsalam? t?ob
>
> Then your reconstruction is hopeless.
> There was a contrast between voiceless, voiced and glottalized
> for all series : labial, dental, velar.
>
> PAA b versus PIE w :
> ?ab 2 meanings : "father ; no"
> PAA p? versus PIE b :
> lap? "lip"
> Hausa leBe versus PIE lab
>
> PAA t? versus PIE d :
> t?a "to give"
> Hebrew (na)t?(an)
>
> PAA d versus PIE d :
> d_?-b, d_?-k "dog" (vowel i and a)
>
> PAA d versus PIE dh :
> dh "breast"
> Hebrew dad = PIE dh_H1-
>
> etc
>
> Arnaud

***

The manner of presentation is so confused that I must start anew to make any
kind of a sensible response.
==============
tsalam? t?ob

Sorry,
but your answer makes things worse.
Arnaud
===============

The Nostratic form for Hebrew ?ab, 'father', is *?ap?(u). Nostratic *p?
becomes PS *b and PIE *b(h)/w.
=======
Hebrew is clear. b is from *b.
*p? becomes -f- in Hebrew.

Arnaud
=============
In this particular case, *w is equivalent:
PIE Ha(:)wo-s, 'maternal grandfather'.
==========
Another word.
?ab : father
dzaw : grand-father

Arnaud
==============
These correspondences are all detailed at
http://geocities.com/proto-language/c-AFRASIAN-3_table.htm
==========
I don't trust that a second.
Arnaud
==========
For Hebrew "(na)t?(an)", I prefer indicating the medial emphatic as T; I do
not understand why an emphatic should be notated as if it were a glottalized
stop?
========
What a shame !
Emphatic consonants are glottalized in Ethiopian Semitic.
Arnaud
=============
It is originally a retroflexed apical before a _back vowel_. In
actuality, the Hebrew has <natan> not <naTan>.
==========
What a shame !
Modern Hebrew is mostly spoken by European Jews
These people (of French, german, russian, etc) ascent
cannot say a glottalized or emphatic consonant.
This time your Beat-Ruhlen score is great !

Arnaud
===========

Nostratic *t?a corresponds to PS *t.
=======
Then it means Nostratic isn't worth studying.
Thank you for warning me I shouldn't waste my time.
Arnaud
==============

Nostratic *tsa/i is the source of PA *dh;
========
Teratological phonology.
Both *ts and *s become *s in PIE.
Arnaud
============
Arabic <dadâ>, 'nursing mother', the same word as your Hebrew <dad>, is a
result of PS *d, PA *d, and Nostratic *t?s. The PIE reflex is *dh, which
ties here into *dhe:(i)-, 'nurse', and *dhedhn-, '(sour) milk'.
=========
Apart from the Teratological **Nostratic *t?s**
I agree.
Arnaud
=========