Re: ficken

On 2008-01-21 19:57, alexandru_mg3 wrote:

> Regarding the sematism of the abstraction it could work: but why "pre-"
> was lost? This is difficult to explain: I don't remember any Latin word
> in Romanian that lost his Latin prefix

Most words with prefixes occur also without them. <praepu:tium>
contained a bound morpheme which, however, made perfect sense. If the
foreskin constitutes the front (prae-) of the -pu:tium, What can this
-pu:tium be? Let me think...

In the same way, English speakers may, more or less jocularly, restore
<kempt> and <couth> through back-derivation from <unkempt, uncouth>,
though the actual free-occurring forms of the past participles of OE
cemban and cunnan have been extinct for centuries.

By the way, what about Mod.Gk. poútsa (or -os) 'dick'. Is that also from
The Romanian Substrate? ;)

> I think that I have this evidence:
> ==================================
> Is Albanian : puth 'to kiss, (reflx.III) to make sex' < PAb *putsa <
> PIE *puk^-o
>
> If you take a look on the word-family of thuis word you will see that
> the initial meaning wasn't so evident 'to kiss'
>
> the below meaning are from Albanin-Romanian Dictionary:
>
> a) puth 1.'to kiss' 2. to touch, to caress 3. to link, to bind, to put
> together
> b) (ref1.) puthem 1. to kiss (reflex) 2. TO MAKE SEX
>
> c) puthit 1. to collate, to bind,
> d) puthitem 1. to collate (reflex)
>
> So the reflexive form Alb. PUTHEM means (only III. pers) 'to make sex'
> and Romanian PUT,A means '(small) penis'

This is somewhat Ruhlenian. The core meanings of Alb. puth- are 'kiss,
caress, touch with the mouth', etc. (I assume meanings like 'collate,
dovetail' are figurative), and the reciprocal sense 'to make sex' may be
a euphemism of no particular antiquity. How do you know it fits into
your "time frame", especially in the absence of anything directly
corresponding to the Romanian word? (fem. *puthë 'penis' would fit the
bill, but where is it?). Demiraj's derivation of <puth> from *bHus-dH-,
is completely unlikely: it's a safe bet that the word is simply
sound-imitative and was coined within Albanian.

Piotr