--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@> wrote:
>
> > > but with <d>
> > > substituted for <t> for some reason (lack of stress?). Or are
> > > they from IE words with *dh-?
>
> > The former, I think.
> > Note Møller's example in
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/29869
> > The originally 'dangling' (Vedic, Hittite) adverbial could be and
> > was later understood as either postposition or preverb; Verner
> > would have given different outcomes accordingly, which later might
> > have been generalized.
>
> How would that happen? Since you've gotten the correspondences
> for Grimm's and Verner's Laws wrong many times in the past you may
> be misinterpreting this case, too.
>
> If so, then remember that PIE d > PGermanic t everywhere; it's PIE
> t that can become d by Verner's Law.
>
> If not, then I don't know what new rule you might be proposing.
Oops, you're right, I was shooting from the hip again. I think the
explanation could be right in principle (different stress in
postposition and preverb role), but obviously it can't be Verner.
Møller proposes something like that for his IE-Semitic protolanguage
to account for similar alternations in IE and Semitic.
Vergleichendes indogermanisches-semitisches Wörterbuch, p. VI-VII
"Besonders zwingend spricht für die enge Zusammengehörigkeit der
voridg. und der vorsemit. Grundsprache die Übereinstimmung der
indogerm. Alternationen (der von E. Zupitza KZ. 37, 387ff.
nachgewiesenen 'Doubletten', der Noreenschen 'Spuren indogermanischer
Lautgesetze', s. SI. 134ff.) mit dem semitischen Wechsel emphatischer
und nichtemphatischer Konsonanten..."
in casu, applied to Germanic *to: (the colon : separates the
alternating forms)
"
ad Präp.,
lat. ad
air. ad-
got. an. as. at
ags. æt
afries. et
ahd. az,
und s. idg. d- (< voridg. Y.-D.- [: Y.-d-])
: semit. Y.-d- 'terminus',
phönik. 3ad
hebr. bibl.-aram. 3aD 'usque ad',
assyr. adu: 'Zeit', adu:, adi: 'zur Zeit', adi 'während',
äthiop. 3a:di: 'adhuc'
(s. ot-, at-, t-)
...
at-, Reduktion von ot- (s. d. < voridg. Y.-d- 'terminus'),
lat. at- (in at-avus etc.)
gall. ate-
(sanskr. áti avest. aiti- apers. atij- < idg. óti oder ati);
+ n-Suffix
lat. annus (< atno-s)
:
idg. ad (< voridg. Y.-D.-), s. d.
...
1 *ot- 'terminus' (< voridg.-semit. Y.-d-), reduz. at-,
got. aþn, at-aþni 'Jahr',
lat. annus (< atno-s)
[: idg. Präp. ad < voridg. Y.-D.-, s. ad S. 1, 5 d- S. 39],
= semit. Y.-d Präp. (s. ad),
assyr. eda:nu, ada:nu 'Zeitpunkt'
(dem ein idg. *oto:n- mit Reduktionen entsprechen würde,
vgl. otn- in got. aþn?);
mit w-Präformativ arab.
w-Y.-d- III 'constituit tempus aut locum',
hebr. y-3-d- 'bestimmen (eine Zeit)';
erweitert assyr. Inf. adu: 'festsetzen, bestimmen';
+ m- äthiop. 3adama 'diem (tempus) constituit'
(= idg. t-m- in lat. tempus?),
3edme: 'tempus constitutum';
einfach redupl. Y.-d-d- (arab. Y.adda 'he reckoned, numbered') in
arab. Y.idda:nun, Y.adda:nun 'time, period',
bibl.-aram. 3idda:n jüd.-aram.3idda:na: m. 'Zeit, > Jahr',
syr. 3ed(d)ånå: 'tempus'.
...
5 d- Präp. 'ad' (< ad, s. d., < voridg. Y.-D.-),
gemeinslav. do
nl. te
ahd. za, zi
mhd. ze Präp. 'zu',
avest. -da
gr. -de,
westgerm. ags. fries. nd. to: Präp. ahd. mhd. zuo Adv.;
+ l- idg. d-l- (< voridg. Y.aD.ál-),
nord. til Präp., ahd. zil n. 'Ziel'
[: idg. t-l- < voridg. Y.adál- in gr. télos];
+ y- (< voridg. Y.aD.áy-)
germ. ti:- in
ags. fries. as. ti:d an. ti:ð ahd; zi:t 'Zeit' und
ags. ti:ma an. ti:mi;
: idg. *ot- 'terminus' (< voridg.-sem. Y.-d-), s. d.
"
and *tus-
"
1*d-w- 'deúesthai, hinter etwas zurückbleiben, ermangeln (so dass
einem etwas 'fehlt'), geschädigt sein' (< voridg. D.-w-), und
+ Laryngal (A- = semit. A-? s. u.)
reduziert du:- (u: < u + Laryngal);
gr. deúteros 'sequior, inferior', deútatos 'der letzte';
an. tyo:n (tyo:n ok tapan) 'Schade, Nachteil, Verlust',
fya:r-tyo:n 'Verlust von Hab und Gut' (ähnlich li:f-, mann-tyo:n),
as. tiono 'Schädigung', gitiunean 'Schaden tun',
ags. te:on, te:ona 'damnum', ty:nan 'affligere, injuriari'
(germ. tewn- < idg. dewn- [: semit. d-w-n-, s. u.]
oder < idg. dewa- + n-);
gr. dúe: 'Unglück, Elend' (wozu dué:pabos, due:pathé:s),
duáo: 'bringe ins Unglück';
skr. du:- f. 'Leid, Schmerz',
Part. du:ná- 'hart mitgenommen, in Unruhe vorsetzt, gequält, > gebrannt',
Präs. intr. duná:ti (< d-w- + Laryngal)
'vergeht vor Kummer, vor innerer Hitze, verzehrt sich',
trans. dunó:ti (< idg. du-né-w-ti von d-w- + w- oder analogisch?)
'nimmt hart mit, vorsetzt in Trauer, in innere Glut, >
brennt, verursacht Schmerzen durch Brand';
+ s- idg. d-ws-,
äol. deúo: (ion. déo:), Aor. edeúe:se, Med. deúomai
'ermangle, bleibe hinter etw. zurück',
sanskr. do:s^a-m. 'Fehler, Schaden, Nachteil, Mangel, Gebrechen,
Krankheit', übertragen 'Verfehlung, Schuld, Sünde',
wozu das gemeinidg. dus-,
skr. av. dus^-
gr. dus-
got. tuz-
ahd. zur-
ags. an. tor-;
= vorsemit. *D.-w- >
arab. z.-w- (in z.aw`atun 'deficient in intellect, foolish, fatuus',
IV `az.wa: 'fatuus fuit', s. u.)
: semit. *d-w-,
+ A- sem. d-w-A- (: idg. déwa-, du:- in duná:ti, du:ná- ?),
arab. da:`a 'he or it (a limb) was (became) sick or ill, attacked by a
disease',
da:`un, Pl. `adwa:`un 'a disease, illness, external or internal,
physical and > moral (a defect, fault, vice)';
+ y- sem. d-w-y-,
arab. intr. dawiya 'male habuit, aegrotavit',
spez. 'he was (became) affected with consumption of the lungs',
IV `adwa: 'morbo affecit (aliquem)',
äthiop. dawaya 'morbo affectus est',
Part. dewu:y 'invalidus, aeger',
dawe: 'morbus',
arab. dawan 'disease, illness, and consumption of the lungs',
dawan, -in, -i:yun 'male habens, diseased, ill, or whose chest or
belly is in a bad or corrupt state', und
dawan 'deficient in intellect, dull, foolish, stupid'
[: vorsemit. *D.-w-y- in arab. IV `az.wa: 'fa-tuus fuit', z. = idg.
d], hebr. ma-Dwæ: 'Krankheit', dewa:y dass., dawwa:y 'ganz krank',
da:wæ: 'menstruierend, unrein',
Perf. da:wa: > 'menstruieren',
neuhebr. 'traurig sein'
(Niph. 'betrübt werden', Hiph. 'betrübt machen'),
jüd.-aram. dewa: 'traurig sein',
Ithpe. 'sich betrüben, Schmerz empfinden',
syr. dewi: 'miser, debilis fuit',
dåwe: 'afflictus, infelix, miser, debilis',
dewåyå: 'miseria'
jüd.-aram. dewa:ya: 'Kummer, Betrübnis',
neuhebr. diwwuy m. 'Elend, Kummer';
+ n- [: idg. d-wn- ? s. o.]
arab. du:nun 'inferior, sequior, lower, baser, viler (vgl. gr.
deúteros, s. o.), contemptible, weak',
Adv. du:nu 'below (as denoting a falling short of the limit), beneath,
under',
`adwanu 'the lesser, lower, baser',
Perf. da:na 'he was or became du:nun, inferior, sequior fuit';
+ k.- (< vor-sem. H.- oder G.-),
arab. Perf. da:k.a 'demens fuit, desipuit, (pecus) macie extenuatum
fuit', dehnstufig da:`ik.un 'stultus, fatuus';
+ k- (: k.-, wenn dieses < K.-),
arab. da:ka '(al-k.awmu the people or party) became diseased or sick,
feil into a state of confusion or disturbance and disagreement',
dawkatun 'evil or mischief, a confused state of affairs',
du:katun dasselbe und 'disease, sickness';
+ X- (urspr. spirantische Nebenform von k-)
arab. da:Xa intr. 'vilis fuit, he was (became) submissive',
trans. 'subjugavit',
II dawwaXa 'he rendered (a man, a camel etc.) submissive, he subdued
(a country, a people), it (heat) weakened (a man), (pain) made (a
man's head) giddy';
+ 3- (Media von X-) arab. da:3a '(al-k.awmu populus) universali morbo
laboravit, (annona) vilis pretii fuit'.
"
But the only way this helps us (it assigns a PIE alternation d-/t- to
both prepositions) is if we assume that prepositions were loaned after
Grimm either into Gothic (the d-forms) or into both Gothic and West
Germanic.
Torsten