Re: swallow vs. nighingale

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "afyangh" <fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

>
> Arnaud to Torsten :
>
> As regards this "a-mes-la" black-bird,
> There is plenty of data indicating
> that a possible macro-comparative root
> could be : *H_m "black" (H = unvoiced pharyngeal)
> so PIE H1_m.

Why h1?

> Arabic Hamm, 'aHam, 'atHam, sa-Ham, etc "black"
> Chinese Hm-ok > BeiJing Hei1 "black"

If you want *H-d-m "darkness" etc, look here
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Adm.html

> If we analyse a-mes-la from H1_m
> then it has nothing to do with ?a- prefix
> because am- < H1om- is the root not a prefix.

As is clear from the Møller quote in
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/50938
in case you read it.

> My conclusion is that we can't include this word in the data related

to the ?a- prefix.

Nonsense. The a-prefix in the rest of the 'bird language' words might
be just as illusory as the one in the word for "blackbird". Cf. eg.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/50542

> Other words like Greek melas are most likely unrelated.
> because the expected Greek word should be e-mel if it were from
> H1_m.

The Greek prothetic vowel is not a regular reflex of a PIE laryngeal,
cf. *h1ed- > odont- "tooth". Besides, loanwords do strange things.

> As regards 'am- "evening",
> I would suggest H2_w-s "west, evening" as a cognate.

from Møller: Vergleichendes indogermanisch-semitisches Wörterbuch
"
2ep- (< voridg.-sem. À-b-)? 'nieder, niedersinken',
trans 'niederstrecken' oder
ebh- (s. d. < voridg.-sem. À-P.-),

got. ib- in ib-dalja m. 'Abstieg, katábasis';
+ n- idg. Part. epnó-s (ebhno-s ?),
got. ibn-s 'pedinós'
as. eBan
ahd. eban
an. yafn 'eben',
ahd ebano:n
an. yafna 'ebnen, gleich machen',

dehnstufig e:pn- (oder e:bhn- ?),
ags. æ:fen, ne. eve, evening,
+ t- as. a:Band ahd. a:band 'Abend';
+ t- (< voridg.-sem. d-) o-stufig idg. opt- in gr. opsi-, opsé,
mit -n-Suffix (< voridg.-sem. -n-Suffix)
idg. opt-n-, ags. æften(-ti:d) aisl. aptann 'Abend';
"

> From root '-a-m?- (glottal stop_glottalized m)

Weird nasal. I prefer /n,W/, nasal labiovelar.

> Starling has plenty of data about words meaning "black"
> but most of them need to be sorted out.
> Everything is mixed up.

I'm not stopping you ;-)


Torsten