Re: swallow vs. nighingale

Arnaud to Torsten :

As regards this "a-mes-la" black-bird,
There is plenty of data indicating
that a possible macro-comparative root
could be : *H_m "black" (H = unvoiced pharyngeal)
so PIE H1_m.

Arabic Hamm, 'aHam, 'atHam, sa-Ham, etc "black"
Chinese Hm-ok > BeiJing Hei1 "black"

If we analyse a-mes-la from H1_m
then it has nothing to do with ?a- prefix
because am- < H1om- is the root not a prefix.

My conclusion is that
we can't include this word in the data related to the ?a- prefix.
Other words like Greek melas are most likely unrelated.
because the expected Greek word should be e-mel if it were from H1_m.

As regards 'am- "evening",
I would suggest H2_w-s "west, evening" as a cognate.
From root '-a-m?- (glottal stop_glottalized m)

Starling has plenty of data about words meaning "black"
but most of them need to be sorted out.
Everything is mixed up.

Arnaud

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud"
<fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:

>
> Arnaud to Torsten
> Thank you.
>
> This looks like an excellent suggestion.
> Give me some time to check your data,
> and I will probably agree,
> I'll let you know.
>
> Thx again.
> Danke.
>
> Arnaud
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:58 AM
> Subject: [Courrier indésirable] [tied] Re: swallow vs. nighingale
>
>
>
>
> > I have clearly rejected the idea that it could be any article,
> > PIE a- in a-ms-lâ is just aleph + vowel : H2-e
> > I do not need any "causative" additional story.
> > This muddles up everything.
> > PIE : From (verbal) root C_C => Noun : ?a + C_C.
> > Variant form : ?i-
> > Needs nothing more.
> > And it is definitely not a "substrate".
> > Look at Greek and you will know.
>
> I thought I had posted this already, but I can't find it in the

archives:

> from Møller: Vergleichendes indogermanisch-semitisches Wörterbuch
> "
> 4*om- 'dunkel sein, die Augen schließen, blind sein'
> (< voridg.-semit. Y.-m-),
> + s- idg. oms-, m-s- 'schwarz sein' (s. d.) in
> ahd. amsala, lat. merula 'Amsel';
> + l- idg. m-l- in gr. mélas 'schwarz',
> + g- (< vor-idg. G.-) am-lg- in
> gr. (en nuktòs) amolgo:.~ (a- Reduktion des urspr. o);
> + r- + g- : k- (< voridg. G.- : g-) in
> an. myrkr as. mirki 'finster' :
> sanskr. marká- m. 'Verfinsterung (der Sonne)',
> abulg. mrakU 'Finsternis', mrIcati: 'dunkel werden',
> serb. mrk 'schwarz'
> ...
> + y- idg. m-y- 'die Augen schließen', s. 3m-y-
> (auch dän. misse 'blinzeln', norw. myse 'die Augen

zusammendrücken'

> werden aus Erweiterungen unsers 4om- hervorgegangen sein);
> + dh- idg. *omdh-> ondh- (s. d.),
> sanskr. andhá- 'dunkel, blind';
>
> = semit. * Y.-m-,
> einfach redupl. neuhebr. 3a:mam und Pi. 'dunkel werden',
> Pi. und Hithp. 'verdunkeln',
> jüd.-aram. 3amam
> Ithpe. 'dunkel werden';
> + s- arab. intr. Y.amisa, Y.amusa 'obscurus fuit (dies)'
> == idg. oms-, s. d.;
> + t.- = idg. ondh-, s. d.;
> +s^´- : s.-
> (< vorsemit. k^- : K.^-,
> urspr. semit. intr. Y.ámis^´-, trans. Y.amás.-),
> arab. intr. Y.amis^a 'he was weak in sight' :
> syr. 3emas. (nicht = arab. 3-m-d.- mit 3) 'clausit (oculos

suos)',

> Pa. 'clausit (oculos alicujus)',
> 3emis.uþå: 'lippitudo',
> 3am(m)us.uþå: 'clausio (oculorum)' und
> Pa. 3ammes. 'occaecavit', Ethpa. 'occaecatus est',
> neuhebr. Pi. '(die Augen) zudrücken',
> jüd.-aram. 3amas. dass.;
> + y- (= idg. 3m-y-, s. d.)
> jüd.-aram. 3ama: 'dunkel sein', 3amya: 'Dunkelheit',
> arab. Y.amiya 'it was obscure, he was (became) blind',
> Y.amin 'blind'.
> ...
> oms- 'dunkel' (< voridg. intr. Y.ámas-, = 4om- + s-) in
> lat. umbra 'Schatten' (mbr < msr),
> ahd. amsala ags. o:sle 'Amsel'
> [= idg. m-s- (< voridg. Y.amás-) in
> lat. merula 'Amsel']
>
> = semit. Y.-m-s-,
> arab. Perf. intr. Y.amisa, Y.amusa 'obscurus fuit (dies)',
> s. 4om-.
> "
>
> Orël & Stolbova, Hamito-Semitic Etymological Dictionary:
> "
> 38 *`amas- "darkness, evening"
>
> Semitic *`ams^- :
> Akkadian mu:s^u "night",
> Hebrew `emes^ "evening",
> Arabian `ams- "evening".
>
> Cf. also
> Akkadian ams^ali "yesterday",
> Harsusi yems^i id.,
> Mehri yems^i id.
>
> Central Chadic *mVs- "shadow":
> Gudu m&s^ü.
> From *`VmVs-.
>
> Bed amas "late evening".
> Borrowing from Semitic?
>
> Rift *`amas- :
> Iraqw &msi "middle of the night",
> Gorowa amsi "middle of the night",
> Alagwa amasi "middle of the night",
> Burunge amasi "middle of the night",
> Kwadza amasiya "tomorrow".
> Borrowing from Sem?
> "
>
> This looks like the right root for a bird otherwise called

blackbird,

> or (Dan.) solsort
>
> Torsten
>