---- Original Message ----
From: stlatos
To:
cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] swallow vs. nighingale, SWALLOW
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Grzegorz Jagodzinski"
> <grzegorj2000@...> wrote:
>>
>> ---- Original Message ----
>> From: stlatos
>> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [tied] swallow vs. nighingale
>
>> But seriously: could you list words with l > r and without this
> change, and
>> formulate the rule first than negate my words?
>
> I think the change is l>r. between V_V if followed by n., but more
> exact conditions for the environment may exist. I reconstruct many
> more sounds for PIE than most, which incidentally allows more regular
> rules.
>
>>> The change of *gWdelu+ >>
>>> hiru:do: 'leech' suggests it is so.
>>
>> One example, or even two examples, means no example (especially that
>> there are more differences between Greek bdella and Latin hiru:do:,
> including the
>> vowel in the root).
>
> It was probably contaminated by *gYher+ 'grasp', and maybe hirundo:
> itself. Sometimes e>i by a pal. in Latin; the rule in this case may
> be e>i/#CY_C+sonor. [or only specific combinations?] especially if o>e
> in the same position later.
First question is: have anybody ideas on etymology of German Egel and
Swedish igel "leech"?
My personal impression is that the following forms may be related:
1) Greek bdella,
2) Latin hiru:do:,
3) German Egel / Swedish igel,
4) Lithuanian de.le.
I also think that the IE basis was a root meaning "to suck". The root is
hard to reconstruct because of many irregular changes.
IE *gWdel- is suggested by the Greek form.
IE *gh(e)ru:d- is suggested by the Latin form.
IE *eghel- (any better ideas?) is suggested by the Germanic form.
IE *dhe:l- is suggested by the Baltic form (cf. Latin fe:la:re "to suck").
IE *gdul- < *gWdel- (???) may be attested by Low German zullen "to suck a
nipple" (< High German?), tulken "to suck", Dutch tullen "to soak".
However, -l- may be a suffix (or: a root extension), not a part of the root
itself.
So, indeed, IE *dheugh- may be reconstructed on the basis of Toch. tsuk- "to
drink", Skr. dogdhi "he/she/it milks", dogha "milkman". If it is related to
the leech words, the correct reconstruction for "leech" is *dhghWel- <
*dhughel-, not *gWdel-.
However, there are also arguments for *g-d-.
IE *g^id- (two plain voiced stops!) may be reconstructed on the basis of
Greek neogillós "newly / shortly sucking", Gíllos (if < *g^id-lo-), Lith.
z^i,sti, z^in~da "to suck".
There seem to exist yet simpler forms of the root.
IE *dhei(H)- is suggested by Polish doic "to milk", Skr. dhayati "it sucks".
IE *dheH- (< *dheiH-?) is suggested by Slavic de^ti "children" ("sucking
ones"?). See also *dhe:l- above.
A reduplicated (and irregularily reduced) form of the above may be seen in
Gothic daddjan "to suck".
In addition, IE *ksweiHd- (*gwdeiHd- ??) may be reconstructed on the basis
of Avestan xs^vi:d- "milk", Lith. svíestas "butter", and it may also belong
here.
From the Neogrammarian point of view all these reconstructions are not
related. However, similarities between them in both form and meaning are
striking.
Grzegorz J.
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