Re: full

From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 50829
Date: 2007-12-09

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: full

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:58 PM
Subject: [Courrier indésirable] [tied] Re: full (was: swallow vs. nightingale)

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If we allow that Sumerian is related, then Sumerian bul,  bul-4, and bul-5, 'inflate', indicate that the vowel which became PIE *A in this word was  earlier *o/*u. That is why, among other reasons, I reconstruct *PHO-NHA as a preceding form: *po/ul.
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A.F
I definitely disagree.
PIE polu has *o because it is basically built like a past participle.
Other PIE forms are vowelless : *pl-
PAA has -i- in Arabic and Egyptian *a in Touareg.
 
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Fournet:
 
I wrote the _PIE_ form was *pAl-, which yields *pol(- u-) and *pl-.
 
The vowel of the pre-PIE form *po/ul has NOTHING TO DO WITH *polu-.
 
Arabic has NO vowel; roots are triconsonantal.
 
Touareg is NOT Egyptian.
 
PCR
 
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I would suggest that Sumerian inflate bul has more to do with root *puH-
to blow, to breathe. And it is a verb not an adjective.
 
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It is for this reason that I reconstructed a "skin bag being inflated/becoming full".
 
PCR
 
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If we are willing to expand our sights to PIE *(s)p(h)el-, 'split, split off, tear off', we can compare Sumerian pe-el  (for pi+il(i)-5 = *pil), 'dig, excavate'. If this is valid, it tells us that the form preceding *(s)p(h)el- was *PHFE-NHA: *pe/il-. 
 
With this latter, we can compare Arabic falaHa, 'cultivate, till'. With the former, Arabic ?aflaHa, 'prosperous' .
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A.F
I have previously refuted this assertion.
One basic rule of etymology is that the best explanations are synchronic,
The meaning "prosperous, successful" is a metaphoric use of the verb "to cut"
As in "break-thru" from "break". Here Arabic uses "cut" instead of "break" to express "success". To cultivate is cut the earth.
None of these words has anything to do with *p_l "full".
 
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Correction: you have previously asserted this refutation.
 
I believe your synchronic explanation is totally without merit.
 
PCR
 
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<snip>
 
There are a number of prefixes like ?a- that can be added to Arabic verbs to produce various nuances of the basic verbal idea but note: these are added to triliterals. ?a to f-l-H.
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A.F
This is the Form IV of Arab grammarians.
Very often it does not change the meaning, but transitivity.
It can be further expanded as form XII
 
Your last statement : **added to tri-literals* * is false :
 
zaqq : to jump = ?azaq (z_q : 2)
aqlawla : to fly in the air very high : Form XII (q_l : 2) 
 
Apart from a good dictionary of Arabic, I warmly recommend you also get a good grammar.
 
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z-q-q is a triliteral (geminate): Form IV would be ?azqaqa.
 
Do you dispute this?
 
PCR
 
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Your idea that prefixes can be added to biliterals, which hardly exist in Arabic, such as H-, r-, ?a to f-l. which preserves its meaning of 'fill/full' is totally contrary to established theory.
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A.F
This is not "my idea"
although I adhere to this approach
I give you again the relevant source.
The three books on the left describe the theory.
 
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If you are not prepared to present arguments for this "theory", no one on this list will give it the slightest credence, I think.
 
 
PCR
 
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And, in the case of these 'derivatives' , you have so far been unable to substantiate the meanings that Kazimirski assigned them.
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I keep asking where you obtained Egyptian "Hipulil". It is a figment of someone's imagination.
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A.F
First time you asked.
So answer is : From M. Georges Roquet : a specialist of Coptic and Egyptian
who works on the reconstruction of Old Egyptian.
Serious work.
I think he will probably publish his reconstructions in two or three years.
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If he publishes a book with Hipulil in it, I doubt there will be a second publication.
 
Egyptian words are without indicated vowel: does Roquet perhaps mean Hfn?
 
PCR
 
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