From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 50576
Date: 2007-11-22
----- Original Message -----From: tgpedersenSent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 3:23 AMSubject: [Courrier indésirable] [tied] Re: swallow vs. nighingale> ============ ==
>
> A.F : new
> My point of view about these "bird-names" with #a- ""mutable""
> first syllable supposedly being not from PIE is this :
>
> 1. A lot of words in Greek display #i- or #a- as a kind of
> "prothesis".
>
> This ruins the hypothesis that western PIE words displaying #a-
> could be from a substrate.
It would, if they had been the same words, but they're not (except for
the 'bird name language' *(a)raud- vs. PIE *h1reudh-(ro- )).
> This must be inherited, even though not properly described so far
> in the standard theory of good old PIE.
Why must that be inherited?
===============A.F :
The morphological process of adding #a- or #i-to PIE roots exists in many languages, including and outside Greek.If it exists in Greek, Celtic, Germanic, etc,then I guess it has credentials to be inherited.==================
> 2. The idea that this #a- could ""just"" be the semitic article is
> "forest-gumpish" .
Do you want the rest of us to adopt similar tactics when arguing with you?
Besides, this is not what Möller advocates in the quote which you
obviously haven't read.==========
A.F
so what ?
==============
>
> Next
>
> Concerning the word lark, a couple of words display -iw- as the
> reflex of -l- in Germanic :
>
> lalarka > laiwarka. Cf. alauda : the singing bird
>
> maiwa "gull" : Cf. Saami bup-mal-as and Norse ful-mar. *mal =
> maiw- = gull
>
> This could be a PIE substrate in Scandinavia before Germanic got
> there.
>
> =====
>
> Next
> as another possibility to be investigated,
> is there a class in North-Caucasian for birds starting with prefix
> #a- ?
>
> or animals or anything the like ?
In which way is this proposal not forest-gumpish?
Torsten