Re: Fw: [tied] Re: "As"

But it's an exonym, compare this with the Cherokee.
There is no -o- in the Cherokee language. Or with the
Germans --who don't have the /dj-/ sounds --that
obviously makes them non-Teutonic, right?
I have no clue whether YueZhi means anything in
Chinese, but it could be a calque on their own name
for themselves or it could have passed through other
languages before the Chinese picked it up.



--- "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: fournet.arnaud
> To: Piotr Gasiorowski ; BMScott@...
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 8:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Re: "As"
>
>
> A.F wrote :
>
> Cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuezhi
>
> Starting with present-day Chinese names :
> Yue Zhi
> Yue Shi
> Yu Zhi
> and Niu Zhi
>
> If we retro-evolve these names to AD 00,
> Yue < *ng-ïwat- (velar nasal)
> Zhi < *tsix
> Shi < *six
> Niu < *ngjaw
>
> Niu and Yue used to be once closer than now.
>
> YueZhi autoethnonym was sounding close to *ngjawtsix
> or *ngiwatsix.
>
> I am not sure that these people can be "Tokharians"
> !?
> This name doesn't look like a Indo-European word.
>
> Chinese reconstruction is debatable,
> but the surest (non debatable) thing is : this
> ethnonym starts with #ng-
> velar nasal : something especially alien to PIE,
> (and by the way, alien to its closest relatives).
>
> In fact, I am quite sure that these YueZhi people
> cannot be
> whatever kind of Indo-Europeans at all.
>
> ==============
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tolgs001
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 2:27 PM
> Subject: [Courrier indésirable] [tied] Re: "As"
>
>
> >****GK: I'm still working out the intricacies of
> what
> >follows, so just take it as an eminently
> modifiable
> >working hypothesis. "Aorsi" supposedly meant "of
> the
> >west", so these would also have been Alans ("of
> the
> >west", and the As/Os "of the east" (Alans)...
> When
> >Strabo was writing, his "upper Aorsi" were
> located in
> >the area between Caspian and Aral. That is where
> >Chinese Chronicles (the SHIJI particularly,
> relying on
> >the material of Zhang Qian's embassy to the
> Central
> >Asian "Tocharians" (Yuezhi) in 129-128 BCE) place
> "the
> >kingdom of Yantsai", independent at the time. The
> same
> >source identifies "Kangju", an associate power of
> the
> >Yuezhi, somewhere near today's Tashkent. Now
> neither
> >Yantsai nor Kangju are given ethnic labels, but
> we
> >know from Justin (Prol. to ch. 41) that the
> ruling
> >class of the latter was composed of "Saraucae"
> >[=Sakarauka, usually translated "royal
> Scythians"] and
> >"Asiani" [and these Strabo simply calls
> >"Asii"/XI.8.2/. ] BTW the same two groups
> (Sakarauka
> >and Asii/Asiani) were the ruling class of the
> >Tocharians settled south of "Kangju" in Sogdiana
> and
> >Bactria.== At some point after 128 BCE, possibly
> but
> >not certainly before 50 BCE, "Kangju" imposed its
> >dominance on "Yantsai". We know this from the Han
> >Chronicle HOU HANSHU (drawn up in the 3rd c. CE,
> but
> >incorporating material going back to the great
> general
> >Pan or Ban Chao (1rst c. CE). The HOU HANSHU
> states
> >that the conquered Yantsai "has changed its name
> to
> >the kingdom of Alan-liao". We know from Justin
> that in
> >both kingdoms of Kangju and Yuezhi (the latter
> became
> >the Kushans) there was a bloody elimination of
> the
> >Sakarauka by the Asiani.== Right now, I am
> leaning
> >towards the theory that the Alans imposed their
> >domination on a pretty wide area in the 1rst c.
> BCE.
> >They ruled over Kangju (Tashkent)+ Yantsai
> >(Caspia/Aral) + Yan (a territory north of
> Yantsai),
> >and were also the "reges Tocharorum Asiani" as
> Justin
> >refers to them in the Prol. to his ch. 42). For
> the
> >time being, the Aorsi remained independent (Pliny
> >distinguishes them from the Alans).I'm wondering
> if
> >the Siraces mentioned by Strabo were
> >Sa(ka)rauka...****
>
> Anyway, it seems that in most tribal/state
> configurations
> of Eurasia (of the Iranic, Turkic/Khazar, Slavic,
> Hungarian,
> Mongolian/Tatar kind) those Saka clans were some
> kind of
> acknowledged "royal" (dynastic??) 'Gog-Magog'
> upper-crust.
> Any plausible link to the European-like people in
> Uyguria,
> a.k.a. "the Takla Makan mummies" (kept in the
> capital Ürümçi)?
> Seemingly, the KIpçak (Cumanians) and a smaller
> tribe/clan
> Çak (Csák) within the Cumanian or Petcheneg crowds
> might also
> be derivations of Saka.
>
> >>How about Æsir and Asgard? :-)
> >
> >****GK:I suggest we leave this alone (:=)))*****
>
> Why? Norsepeople are eager to know who their...
> Shah-in-Shah
> Aryamer masters once were. :-)
>
> George
>
>
>
>

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