Fw: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco

From: fournet.arnaud
Message: 50219
Date: 2007-10-06

Two other words that have -i- and -u- as vowels are :
 
*dheigh "make walls with mud"
This word exists also in Sino-Tibetan
Chinese is di4 < tik
And Tibetan is something like rdig
(I haven't been able to find the right form again)
These ST words are not supposed to be loanwords.
 
tluk- "first day of moon"
IE luk-sna
Chinese shu4 < shuk "first day of moon"
Japanese tsuki "moon" in general
Cf.
*yid "full moon".
 
Apart from tread = trudan
you also have knead = knud
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: fournet.arnaud
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

I will get back to what really matters : DATA.
 
My point of view : I have already made clear.
 
Point 1 :
PIE inherited a set of four vowels :
*i *u *a (written as <e> by tradition) *o
 
Point 2 :
Innovative morphological processes within PIE
have lead to a situation where :
1. vowel *i and consonant *y
2. vowel *u and consonant *w
about function in the same way.
 
(And this applies to many Chamito-Semitic languages as well)
============
Point 1 is demonstrated by :
 
A : root y_d "full" moon
Basque (h)il
Latin i:d-u:s
Egyptian yid-aH
 
Basque never treats *i as -y-.
A clear case of vowel *i.
 
B : root n_y_l "night"
Sanscrit ni:ra
Arabic layla.
 
In Arabic, Point 2 also applies
but Sanscrit has no historical process
that could explain why a short *i could become long i:
So we are sure that in this root we are dealing with *-y- not *i
 
A case of vowel *i, unexplainable otherwise.
 
the rare scheme *i_a is an archaic variant of *o_a,
exceedingly rare in PIE but frequent in Chamito-Semitic.
 
C
a lot of Greek lexemata :
i-kn-u / i-gn-u / i-skh-nos / i-khthu:s / etc
===
All these data have *i and *u as vowels not consonants.
 
==============
Next :
 
Gotic has the word
tr-u-dan : to tread (Streitberg 1920 : page 302 "treten)
 
How do you account for the fact that this Gotic word
OBVIOUSLY is from root *tr_d, with -u- as vowel.
 
Streitberg calls this : "unreg. Ablaut"
This is a hole in the orthodox theory of PIE apophony.
 
Neither Gotic nor Greek abide by the orthodox theory.
 
=================
 
Somebody previously wrote : "we know who is who around here".
 
I am confident that in a very near future,
people will be able to tell who actually
 
"knows nothing and only writes for an excuse to insult with his very dull wit."
 
I am not afraid about the ultimate judgment that will come from this polemic,
So far, I have provided many examples, in favor of my point of view,
I am confident that in the end, people will judge facts and data.
 
My point of view is clear
and so are my examples.
 
I have already won the fight, and you have lost,
 
The End.
=======================
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Ryan
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 3:32 AM
Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 4:30 PM
Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

***
 
What has been "killed" is the expectation that Arnaud has any understanding of the meaning of 'verbal'.
 
============ =======
A.F
 
Most roots cannot be separated as verbal or nominal.
 
***
 
A statement that is ignorance personified.
 
In any case, it is certainly not true of PIE,
 
PCR
***
What is more : in most cases,
it is the vocalic scheme that gives the final grammatical status to
the compound : Consonant root + Vocalic scheme.
 
It is true with PIE :
dh_H1 + vowel /e/ = a verb
dh_H1 + vowel /o/ = a noun.
 
***
 
The PIE root has the form  *CAC where *A has the form *e, *o, *ø, or *R if the final *C is a resonant. The choice is based on stress-accentual considerations not grammatical ones.                    
 
PR
***                                                                                                                                                                                                                    88
 
It is true also in Chinese :
n_p + vowel /a/ = verb "to enter"
n_p + vowel /o/ = noun "inside, interior"
 
This is basically a proto-World phenomenon.
There are hundreds of cases of roots grammatically undetermined.
 
 ***
Again, pure nonsense. Even Afroasian, a closely connected language to PIE, has anything like *A.
 
I am beginning to suspect that Arnaud knows he knows nothing and only writes for an excuse to insult with his very dull wit.
 
Patrick Ryan
***
<snip>
.