xY>xy; x>s; etc. (was: Latin m>w, w>m)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stlatos
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 9:31 AM
> Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: [tied] Latin m>w, w>m

> In Greek and similar languages various forms of x() or other C < x
> in certain environments cause both a following mY>w and final

n.>r. as:

>
> *piixY-mYn., > *pi:-war > pi^ar 'fat'
>
> *per-x-mYn., > *pers.-war > pei^rar 'end'
>
> ======================
>
> the plain x>s() also in:
>
> *bhax+ 'shine, appear'
> *bhanYax+ (present)
> *bhanY-x-mYn., > *phanYsY-mYn., > phasma / phantasma
> ===============
>
> A.F :
>
> No.
>
> In this root, it is highly probable that H2 is glottalized : H2.5

*s? or H2.6 *ts?

>
> as in Arabic (wa-)bis?-a = to be bright, clear
>
> (t)s? might (---might--- ?!?) be preserved in this Greek word,
>
> although I deem more probable that -s-ma is not H2 + mn but -s- + -mn

If both *+smn, and *+smo+s were separate from *+mn, and *+mo+s they
should appear with roots with any type of V and C combinations equally
often; since they do not and vary within IE languages I think later
sound changes of C>s and C>Cs, etc., seem more likely.

> I suggest you keep H1 H2 H3 as generic symbols for laryngeals
>
> instead of using your own putative identifications,
>
> It obscures which sounds you are handling with.
>
> Phonetic identifications of Laryngeals are controversial,
>
> Your personal identifications do not look convincing enough to

allow replacement of generic H1 H2 H3.

I've given the correspondences many times before. Since I have to
show rules in which xY > x+y and so on they are more convenient. With
all the extra sounds I have for PIE I can't use abstractions when
trying to convince people of their nature.


--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:

>
> Some interesting words :

> i alternates with e
> kirnaô
> kerannumi to mix

As I've said the infix was *nYe not *ne; R,>iR between two CY.

> Long i: alternates with e
> thi:s, thi:nos
> skrt dhanus sand bank

Why these words? The word group including dhanu- and dhanus.- 'bow'
must have meant 'bend, curve in a river, etc.' and be unrelated to any
word for 'heap'.

The more likely correspondence is with Skt dhis.n.iya- 'heap' from
*dhexY+ 'put (on), set (on), heap (on)' with xY > x+y > s.+y before n

> n. (original n. caused xY > y).

The other words for 'heap' include those with *+mo+ like:
*dhoxYmo(n.)+ or *dhexYmo(n.)+ and dim. *dhoxYmn.,ko+ or *dhoxYmn.ik+,
etc., 'thing set (on), heaped (on) _'.

The differences in the V are due to exY > ixY when e was short and
with mid tone (also *+exY+ 'be _' but *+ixYn.o+s '_ (adj.)'.