Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

----- Original Message -----

From: Rick McCallister

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:26 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as Vasco-Caucasian

Obviously Chinese did not borrow the word directly
from IE. I forget what the word is in Tokharian
languages BUT there may have been an unpacking of /KW/
> /ku-V/. This happens all the time in English. The
movie Blazing Saddles is joy to listen to when
redneck Chill Wills yells out /buw@... Siy@.../. Go to the
US South and Appalachia where they jokingly say <eggs>
has 4 syllables --although I hear only 3 /ey@...@/

--- "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@ wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

> ok,
> I believe this word should be reconstructed as
> *ku-H2on "dog"
> for the following reasons :
>
> 1. a remark :
> the syllabic cut *ku-H2on does not mean
> morphemic analysis is *ku + H2on
> As is shown below, the morphemic cut is *kuH2 + on.
>
> 2. IE languages have -u- as a vowel not a consonant,
> starting with Greek.
>
> 3. this word has been borrowed in Chinese as
> *ku-H2-on
> with H2 being either velar or glottal
>
> 4. this word also exists in Berber :
> Kabyle : a-q-zhun < *a-ku-H2un
> Siwa : garzun with -r- infix
> NB : The Berber cognate has accent on -o-.
>
> 5. this word is probably based on a verbal root
> kuH2-
> meaning "to bite",
> as is shown in Eskimo : *këR-ëR- "to bite"
> which gives *këR-ëR-laq "wolf"
>
> 6. this root is also exhibited in URalic PErmiats :
> küöne "a she-wolf"
>
> 7. the connection with Finnish koi-ra < *kuH2- is
> unclear :
> loanword / cognate ?
>
> Sorry,
> I am not ready to give up my comparanda.
>
> ============ =======
> So far you haven't proved that the
> word should be analysed as *k^u- plus a suffix
> ===========
> A.F :
> it is kuH2 plus a suffix -on.
>
> About every IE language treats -u- as a vowel.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Piotr Gasiorowski
> To: cybalist@... s.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 10:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Renfrew's theory renamed as
> Vasco-Caucasian
>
>
> On 2007-09-23 21:43, fournet.arnaud wrote:
>
> > It is sure that we are dealing with a
> two-syllable word : *ku-H2on.
> >
> > PIE internal explanations will have to adjust to
> this fact.
>
> You can't "adjust" PIE reconstructions arbitrarily
> so that *h2 becomes
> invisible in this context. The problem is not only
> that *uh2 doesn't
> yield short /u/ before a consonant but that the
> preconsonantal weak form
> of the stem reflects *k^wn.- and can't be derived
> from *k^uh2n.- (which
> would have given e.g. Skt. instr.pl. !*s'uvabHis
> rather than the
> attested s'vabHis). Compare *h2ju-h3on-/ *h2ju-h3n-
> 'young (hero)', where
> the Skt. strong cases have <yuvan-> while the weak
> ones have <yu:n,
> yuva->, i.e. precisely what the 'dog' word ought
> to (but fails to)
> exhibit. You'd better adjust your extra-IE
> comparanda or give them up ;-)
>
> > I think it matters. You are back to your
> letter-game addiction.
>
> It's called the comparative method. So far you
> haven't proved that the
> word should be analysed as *k^u- plus a suffix;
> you merely offer a
> stipulation to that effect. The 'dog' word is
> unanalysable within
> reconstructible PIE and, for all we know, may have
> been etymologically
> obscure to PIE-speakers. If so, it was
> underlyingly *//k^won-//, with
> the disyllabic variant *k^uo:n occurring only in
> the nom.sg., where
> Lindeman's Law is applicable.
>
> Piotr
>
>
>
>

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