RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

>
> Okay, so far we have
> Scandinavian --possible minimal Saami, and possible
> pre-Uralic substrate. Given that Runic looks (to my
> ignorant view) a whole lot like Scandinavian, any
> substrate influences germane to only Scandinavian are
> probably minimal.

Wrong. Runic might look like Icelandic, which it is close to, but the
'Continental Scandinavian' languages Norwegian, Swedish and Danish
have been creolised in the same was as English, Dutch and Low German:
drastic reduction in inflection for cases and genders in nouns, and
person and number in verbs.

> So look at the possibility that
> Germanic (as a whole) may have been "bottled up" in
> Scandinavian for a while and then expanded out
> Low German, NW Gmc --possible Begic substrate

Call it NWBlock.

> High German--probable Celtic substrate

We know that for a fact.

It's not a possibility.

> But I think we have to speak of a "dynamic" mobile
> homeland that slowly drifted toward Germany and
> Scandinavia instead of saying Germanic was born and
> formed in X.

Why? Being born and formed in one place hasn't stopped English from
drifting.

> Perhaps there was a trajectory and it's more a act of
> plotting points along a line of movement at certain
> points in time. IF this is true, we need to take
> account who else was also moving along.

They were disposed of.

> If we look at it from this perspective, perhaps we're
> all correct, or maybe none of us is.
> One scenario could be that Gmc drifted to the NW from
> Ukraine, the plains between the Black & Caspian or
> wherever with Balto-Slavic to the E of it, Celtic and
> Italic to the SW, Indo-Iranian to the S or SE, and
> Uralic to the N. So when? 3000-2000 BCE?

Born 200 BCE. Starts drifting 70 BCE.

> Gmc drifts NW toward S Poland and eventually to the W
> Baltic & Scandinavia. When does it get there? 1000-500
> BC?

20 BCE

> So does the split between W & E Gmc occur somewhere
> when they reach the Oder valley-Pomerania (Pomorze)?
> If so, there are probably some runes lying under
> Piotr's backyard.

In southeastern Poland.

> Celtic and Italic drift W with Celtic to the W of
> Italic, with Celtic maybe in Bavaria & Bohemia and
> Italic maybe in Hungary

Celtic and Italic were already in place when Germanic was formed.

> OR perhaps it was the Celtic expansion that pushed Gmc
> up into Scandinavia & the Baltic

No, it was the Romans making a colony out of Germania.

> OR perhaps both are true, maybe the Celtic expansion
> just pushed along a phenomenon already in movement

Erh..


Torsten