RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

>
> I would question the lack of dialectal continuity
> between Scandinavian & Western --that's true now but
> Scandinavian overran Jutland c. 400 and eliminated any
> transitional dialects.

That can't be true. There are some rather heavy NW-SE dialect lines in
Jutland, eg. preposed definite article in most of Jutland vs. suffixed
in the rest of North Germanic.

> I understand that while Low
> Saxon was definitely Western, Anglian may have had
> some transitional traits and we don't know anything
> about Jutish or Geatish, etc.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/28035
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/15880
If I'm right that 'Jute' was a substrate and not a Germanic term,
there is nothing to stop us from identifying Jute = Geat etc.

> And, as Brian says, Eastern split much eariler.
> My question regarding Eastern is whether it split from
> the N end of what was a dialect chain.
> There is anecdotal evidence such as "Goth" names in
> Sweden, the Old Swedish Royal Title "KIng of the
> Swedes, the Goths and the Vandals" that suggest it
> split from Scandinavia and crossed the Baltic.

One title of the Danish kings until 1972 was 'de venders og goters',
"of the Wends and the Goths". The Wends were a Slavic people that used
to live on the now German Baltic coast, the Goths of the title refers
to Gotland, which was Danish until 1638.

> Superficially,N German does look closer to E Germanic
> but I'm guessing because it didn't share in the same
> innovations as W Germanic and didn't riun into a
> Celtic substrate

Which Celtic substrate are you referring to?


--BUT correct me

> What timeframe are we looking at?
> c. 600 BC for E Germanic?
> c. 200 BC for N Germanic?
> c. 400 AD for split-up of W Germanic languages?

How about
c. 50 BCE Future Northwest Germanic speakers move west from Southern
Poland, Future East Germanic speakers move south.
c. 0 Future North Germanic speakers move from the area around Hamburg
into Denmark, then Scandinavia, future West Germanic speakers stay and
move west.


Torsten