RE : [tied] Re: North of the Somme

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

>
> My understanding of the "known historical facts" of
> the lower Rhine area is that it was originally Celtic
> and then was invaded by Germanic speakers. The
> resulting people were mixed and perhaps spoke a
> Mischsprache.

The lower Rhine area is at the core of the NWBlock area, which is
bounded by the rivers Weser/aller, The Harz mountains, and the Somme -
Upper Oise line. Check 'NWBlock' and 'Nordwestblock' in the archives.

> And maps I've seen in many books show
> the Germanic people as originally in a limited area of
> present N Germany and Scandinavia (Lower Saxony and
> points north).

That is archaeologically the area of the Jastorf culture. I don't
think it was Germanic-speaking.

> Perhaps the Belgae were a mixed group with a Germanic
> elite who spoke a form of Celtic mixed with Germanic
> on top of whatever substrate language that persisted
> in the area. Is there anything in the local names or
> surviving modern languages that leads to such a
> conclusion?

That's what the whole NWBlock discussion is about. Substrates (ie.
sub-substrates) to that might be some Semitic language (Vennemann's
Atlantic, Kuhn's ar-/ur-language, Møller's glosses), some language
related to Basque (Vennemann's Vasconic, the area of river names in
itter (Basque Iturri "source") and -andr- (Vennemann: = lady? human?),
further Schrijver's 'language of bird names' and 'language of geminates'.


Torsten