Re: [tied] H1

From: stlatos
Message: 49683
Date: 2007-08-28

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@...>
wrote:
>
> I am ready to listen to these odd ideas,
> if you agree to.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: stlatos
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 10:02 PM
> Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re: [tied] H1

> I'd say that kn>kk before final accent; I suppose some linguists
> still don't accept this old rule. If this is related to 'flat' (I
> have some specific and odd ideas about this root) I'd connect it to
> Latin plancus 'flat-footed', planca 'board'.

It's fairly complicated; I'll start as simply as I can:

*pletx+ 'widen, spread out, extend, flatten'

*pl,tx+ú+s m. 'wide, broad, flat'

*pl,tx,+w+í:x f. (also 'wide/flat place, earth')

*pl,tx,+no+s 'broad/flat (thing)'

*pl,tx,+ko+s 'little broad/flat thing'


with IE ev. like:

*pl,txús > Gk platús; Skt pr,thúH

*pl,tx,wí:x > Gk Plataiaí pl.; Skt pr,thiví:

*pl,tx,nos > Gk plátanos 'sycamore'; OIr lethan 'broad'

*pl,tx,kos > MIr lethech 'flat fish > flounder; Skt pr'thuka- 'flat
rice/grain' (u from analogy with pr,thú-).


One important detail is that the t doesn't > th next to the x in
PIE; this is because it wasn't originally there, a V>0 after
stop>+aspir/_$x():

*-txa > *-thxe > *-thxa

*paltaxús > *paltxús > *pl,txús >

*paltaxwíks > *paltaxwíxs > *pl,tx,wí:x

etc.


The syllabification of words like *pl,t-x,-nos suggests an older
*pl,-tx,-nos < *pal-tax-nas (and in general any C moving back to the
syl. of a V or C more sonorant when in -C C,-).

Now, did that resyllabification happen immediately after the
creation of syllabic C, or were there changes in certain environments
beforehand?

Considering the noun:

*pl,tx,+ko+s 'little broad/flat thing'

the formation of a derivative like adj./noun:

*pl,tx,+k+no+s 'little broad/flat (thing)'

seems possible. However, the only ev. for something similar is:


Latin *plakno+ > plancus 'flat-footed'
Latin *plaknax+ > planca 'board'

Celtic *pliknax+ > *xWlikna: > *lekka: 'flat stone'

if the source, as I'm told, of:

MWelsh llech 'slate' OIr lecc 'a slab, a flat stone' (both f.)


Latin also shows k()n > nk() in:

PL *prokWe > prope 'near'

PL *prokWno+s > *proNkWos mix> *propeNkWos > propinquus 'near adj.'

If not originally in front of n, kW>p would have occurred.


I think the relation of planca and lecc to each other really is
certain, once I became aware of them. But some questions need to be
answered: why the dif. V?; are they really related to *pl,tx,kos?

Consider the source of L planta 'sole' if from a word with related
to *pl,tx,- like *pl,t-x,-nos:


pl,t-x,-na:x
pl,t-x,-na:
pl,t-a-na:
pl,-a-nta: metathesis
pl,-an-ta: resyllabification
pl,an-ta: resyllabification
plan-ta:
plan-ta


At one stage *pl,-a-nta: is created by metathesis, then
resyllabification of l,-a > la. This is just an intermediate stage,
quickly ended; however, is it possible that l,-x, could have existed
in PIE?

In Greek and Celtic x(W)>i between l_w (among others):

*paL-x-to+ / *peL-x-to+ 'old'

*paL-x-wo+ / *peL-x-wo+ 'grey, dark'

*gYhel-xW-wo+ 'green/yellow > light/shining'

in:

*paL-x-wo+ > Gk poliós; fallow; L pall-

*peL-x-wo+ > Gk peliós

*peL-x-to+ > Gk pelitnós; Skt palitá-

*gYhel-xW+ > Skt hári-

*gYhel-xW-wo+ > yellow; Gaelic gealbhan 'a fire'

*gYhel-xW-wo+ >> Gk khelidó:n 'swallow'; MIr gelbund 'sparrow'

but the optional el>l, in:

*gYhl-xW+ > Skt híri- (in compounds, etc.)

*gYhl-xW-wo+ > *kYhl-i-wo+ > Gk khlío: 'be warm'
*gYhl-xW-wo+ > *gl-i-wo+ > OIr glé 'clear, bright'

so

*pl-x-kno+ >

Latin *plakno+ > plancus 'flat-footed'
Latin *plaknax+ > planca 'board'

Celtic *pliknax+ > *xWlikna: > *lekka: 'flat stone'


But why did *pl,tx,kno+ lose the t? There's another word that also
does:

*plt-ax-tro+n+ > *plax-tron+ > *flo:dran+
*plt-x,-tr+n+ > *pl-x,-tr,n+ > *flundr+

'flat stone/board/fish' in Germanic


Both these words are followed by at least 2 C after the -tx,-. I'd
say that when the t detaches to move back to the previous syl. it is
deleted if followed by enough consonants.

This is a simplification. Other changes also; more later.