Re: Re Re: Fw: [tied] Pferd

----- Original Message -----

From: patrick cuadrado

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:18 AM

Subject: RE : Re: Re Re: Fw: [tied] Pferd

you said :

 

> Names in supposedly "Belgian" part of the country
> that have clear-cut P-celt origin :
> - oise         the furious one
> - somme     the calm one
> - Ambiani    on both sides of samara river
> - Morini        those on the sea
> - Ardenne    mountain
> - atrebates    those at the back *No
> - veromandi    over the mountains * No

 

* Atrebates = to segmente to Ad-Treb-Ates = Sedantary

Ad- = Very/Much (Intensive prefix)

Treb(a)- = Dwelling/Village

-Ate = Prefix = Those

 

A.F :

Well, this is not that clear.

ad-treb should become attreb- with two -T-

Next point :

According to Irish and Welsh, treb means house, building

Welsh addref : going home

so if we accept this idea, the meaning should be

"those going home"

ad- means "going to, trying to"

it is not intensive prefix.

Something is not very satisfactory with this traditional analysis

from phonetic and semantic points of view.

 

this is why I was trying something different

starting with preposition at-i/ero "back(ward)"

and segmenting atre-ba-tes : those going in the back

See : remes : those in the front

ambiani : those in between

but this is not entirely convincing either.

 

* Uiro-mandui = The horse-man but may be (with symbolic theme) the "centaur"?</ div>

Uiro- = Man

Mandu(s) = Pony

 

A.F :

I deem this idea hugely inadequate.

First, the intrusion of some mythological centaur idea is out of place.

Next, if we accept that mandu could be pony

viro-mandu should be the Poney of Man (What does this mean ?)

I don't understand how this could become a tribe's name.

Next, the hypothesis that mandu could mean pony

is not supported by other Celtic languages.

The root for "smallness" is *menw" attested in Irish and Welsh

with good coherence with LAtin minu-tus.

 

So my proposal is to analyse

viro/vero from upero- above (one more case of -p- lost (=> Dear Torsten Beware !)

mandu mountain

In LAtin the root *mon has a -t- in mon-t-is

but Irish and Welsh have -d- : *menedd-

so it is a perfectly acceptable Gaulish word that *man-d- is mountain/hill

so I maintain that this tribe's name is "those in the uphills of Ardenne".

 

(By the way Bask has mendi for mountain : a probable Celtic loanword)

 

 

"fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@ wanadoo.fr> a écrit :

 

----- Original Message -----

From: tgpedersen

To: cybalist@... s.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:04 PM

Subject: [Courrier indésirable] Re Re: Fw: [tied] Pferd

< BR>> As for p-less etymology in supposedly "Belgian" :
> remes < prem "those at the front".

Possible. Ethnonym? Toponym? Hydronym?

In general, cities are named after the tribe : genitive (+ urbs)

so the modern city of Reims must be from a tribe's name

> Names in supposedly "Belgian" part of the country
> that have clear-cut P-celt origin :
> - oise         the furious one
> - somme     the calm one
> - Ambiani    on both sides of samara river
> - Morini        those on the sea
> - Ardenne    mountain
> - atrebates    those at the back
> - veromandi    over the mountains

Do you happen to know their etymologies? I thought the river names
were Old European?

> Instead of relying on Cesar information,
> I guess the first step is to have a reliable cartography of places
> where Celts settlements are well attested

That sounds like a good idea. Do you have one?

AF : I am trying to have one.

 

Pat
mon blog ici
http://blogs. allocine. fr/blogs/ index.blog? blog=patrick- cuadrado


mon cd disponible ici = Sidaventure : je pense au sida
http://www.dailymot ion.com/relevanc e/search/ sidaventure/ video/x2pc1b_ si

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