Re: Fw: [tied] Pferd

The rook *kwr- for "oak" also exists in LAtin : Quercus.

This word is attested in Sardinian dialect so it must be fairly old in LAtin

Cassanos may be from assimiled kwrs > kwss- > kass-

if one accepts : kw- > ka- as in canis

Note that Basque has haritz for oak

with the same Velar + R + S structure.

Note that Irish has crann "tree" and Breton" has prenn "tree" from *kwr-enn.

Note that this root *kwr- also gives :

- portuguese car_v_alho

- other names of tree : charme, charmille, etc in French

All these words share an (obvious) connection, even though it is not (yet) received theory.

----- Original Message -----

From: patrick cuadrado

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:23 AM

Subject: RE : Fw: [tied] Pferd

hello

you said :

Parisi < *kwr-s-i : those of the oak (Root *kwrs-u oak)

?

but oak in Celtic =

Cassano-

Daru-/Deruo-

Erku-

what about Kwr-s-i

"fournet.arnaud" <fournet.arnaud@ wanadoo.fr> a écrit :

----- Original Message -----
From: fournet.arnaud

To: cybalist@... s.com

Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:32 AM

Subject: Re: [tied] Pferd

As for Paris, and Oise River,

Oise comes from *isarâ not the short form *is-

The other river Isère also come forme *isarâ

The difference is :

Gaulish accent on i : isara > oise

Latin accent on a : isara > isère

Cf. the town Pontoise : Pontus Isarae (in text of IV century)

The etymology "those on the river Oise" would be : ar-isarii.

BUT this type of tribe name based on *ar + river names does not exist.

There isn't any reason to supposed non Gaulish people in this part of France,

Gaulish accentuation in place names shows a strong presence of Gaulish people.

Isère River is in the south : Latin accent.

As a general rule, Gaulish accent is the same as in Latin, one syllabe shifted to the initial (if possible)

This is the objective criterion to tell whether it is Gaulish or LAtin.

Some tribe names are based on tree names,

so my own explanation :

Parisi < *kwr-s-i : those of the oak (Root *kwrs-u oak)

Carnuti < those of the hornbeam tree

Eburi < those of the yew

As for Pferd,

the explanation in Kluge seems perfectly acceptable to me.

para-veredus is a late LAtin word,

hybrid : Greek para- + Gaulish veredus, hence paravered

Kluge writes that the German borrowing dates back to the VI century.

Greek language was present in southern France, as early as -600,

This fact is very often forgotten.

Hybrid words are not rare in French etymology : for example,

Greek oino-phulon vineyard > latinized into vino-pOlus > GAulish accented (!!) vinO-pol-

Hence modern French vignoble.

You can find Greek-LAtinized- GAulish-like hybrids as far to the north as Burgundy.

I even read that the first attempt to christianize France was made in Greek not LAtin !

French has some Greek words that do not exist in other Roman LAnguages,

so it is not wonder that the prefix *para- might have used to build a hybrid word.< /FONT>

Arnaud

Pat
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