--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel J. Milton" <dmilt1896@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was watching on TV how to make Japanese swords. Tempering, by
> > plunging the blade into water, is important. I thought of all the
> > puzzling substrate "dip" words in Germanic.
> > Conclusion: *dhabh-ro-, the origin of Latin faber, Sl. dobryj
> > means "tempered" and was used in the beginning of swordblades (and
> > the like).
> >
> >
> > Torsten
> *******
> Torsten, of all the processes in smithery, do you really think
> plunging in water is important enough to give a name to the
> profession?
If a new technology within a profession is important enough, a new
profession with a new name is born. Without tempering you made rotten
swords, so that new technology was very important.
> Buck says "Lat. 'faber', general term for worker in hard
> materials, including metals, also used with descriptive adjectives
> to apply to particular crafts, but in the majority when standing
> alone 'carpenter', prob. from an original idea of 'one who fits,
> makes fitting'.
Note the 'prob.'. Buck was conjecturing that meaning.
The cognate of 'smith' is used in ON similarly for other professions.
> Is there anything objectionable to Pokorny's discussion of
> 'faber' under root 371 dhabh-2? (I tried to copy it but have font
> problems--sorry)
I have no objections to Pokorny's entry
"
2. dhabh- passend fügen, passend'; dhabh-ro-s ds.
Arm. darbin 'Schmied' (*dhabhr-ino-);
lat. faber, fabri: 'Handwerker, Künstler', Adj. 'künstlerisch,
geschickt', Adv. fabre: 'geschickt', affabre: 'kunstgerecht',
Gegensatz infabre:, fabrica 'Geschicklichkeit, Werkstätte' (pälign.
faber ist lat. Lw.); vielleicht hierher lat. (Plaut.) effafila:tus
'entblößt', Denom. von *fa:filla, *Fügung' (f dial.?);
got. ga-daban 'sich ereignen, eintreffen', Perf. gado:b 'prépei', Adj.
gado:f ist 'es ist passend, schicklich' = ags. gede:fe ,passend, mild'
(*ga-do:bja), gedafen 'geziemend', gedafnian ,passend, schicklich
sein' = anord. dafna 'tüchtig, stark werden, gedeihen', ags. gedæfte
'passend, mild', gedæftan 'ordnen';
aksl. dobrU 'agathós, kalós' (= arm. darbin, lat. faber), dobjI,
dobljI '`áristos, dókimos', doba (alter r/n-Stamm) 'das Passen,
Zutreffen, Gelegenheit', podoba 'Zier, Anständigkeit', u-dobInU
'leicht', u-dobU Adv. 'leicht'; lit. dabà ,Eigenschaft', dabìnti
'schmücken', dabnùs 'zierlich' usw.
WP. I 824f., Trautmann 42 f., WH. I 436 f., 863.
"
it is not in conflict with any of the other quotes nor with my proposal.
The semantic development I propose is:
"tempered" ("dipped"), used of blades ->
"of special quality, well-crafted", used of everything.
Pokorny doesn't get beyond the last meaning.
Torsten