From: Rick McCallister
Message: 49052
Date: 2007-06-18
> [*tum-l-]____________________________________________________________________________________
> > >bis hin zu rum. tumba 'Purzelbaum'.
> >
> > Hehe (and neo-Greek at the same time.)
> >
> > >Die Herkunft der Sippe ist dunkel, doch
> > >vermute ich einen Zusammenhang mit aind. tumala-
> und lat.
> > >tumultus 'Lärm' (vgl. mhd. tumel und getümel
> 'Lärm,
> > >Getümmel'). Den Bedeutungskern bilden Tanz- und
> > >Akrobatenkünste, und mit ihnen, und das heißt mit
> dem
> > >Gauklerwesen, werden die Wörter sich, von einem
> > >unbekannten Zentrum aus, über die Völker und
> Sprachen
> > >ausgebreitet haben (vgl. Gamillscheg, Etym. Wb.
> d. frz.
> > >Sprache 2, 852).
> >
> > Perhaps, in connection to drum/tamburà/tambourine,
> > Rum. toba, Hung. dob; perhaps these too: Hung.
> doromb,
> > Rum. drâmba "Jew's harp".
> >
>
> As for the infixed(?) -r-,
> Vennemann
> Etymology and Phonotactics, in
> Europa Vasconica - Europa Semitica, p. 695-697
> "
> 20.2.7.2. Gm. Strunk, Lat. truncus, Bq. unkhü 'tree
> stock, trunk'
> Gm. Strunk 'stalk, stem, tree stump', according to
> Kluge/Seebold
> (1995), is only attested in Late Middle High German
> (strunc) and in
> Dutch (stronk). Outside Germania the only comparison
> ("vielleicht") is
> Lith. strùngas 'cut back, trimmed'. "Weitere
> Herkunft unklar." Finn.
> runko 'stem' is a Germanic loan-word.
> For Lat. truncus, -i: m. 'stem, trunk (of a tree, of
> a human body),
> block, blockhead', related words can only be found
> in West
> Indo-European languages (cf. Walde/Hofmann 1982:
> s.v.); and
> considering that in Latin there is an adjective
> truncus, -a, -um
> 'mutilated, stripped of one's branches, dismembered'
> (also a verb
> truncare 'to maim, mutilate, cut off which is,
> however, of more recent
> attestation than the nominal forms and thus probably
> not their base),
> they do not all fit well semantically: Lith.
> trenkiù, treñkti 'heftig,
> dröhnend stoßen' ('to push violently,
> resoundingly'), î-tranka
> 'Anstoß' ('push'), trankùs 'holprig' ('rough,
> bumpy'), trañksmas
> 'Gedränge' ('throng, thronging'), trìnkis 'Anstoß'
> ('push'), trìnka
> 'Haublock' ('chopping block'), OPruss. pertrinktan
> 'verstockt'
> ('obdurate, stubborn'), Welsh trwch 'verstümmelt'
> ('maimed,
> mutilated'); further, "mit vokalischer und
> Auslautvariation", Lith.
> strungas 'gestutzt' ('cut back, trimmed'), striùgas
> 'kurz' ('short'),
> striubas 'kurz'. Possible connections with Gm.
> Strunk and with the
> family of Gm. dringen 'to penetrate', drängen 'to
> push, press, throng'
> are mentioned; but Kluge/Seebold (1995: s.vv.) only
> connect with Gm.
> dringen/drängen Lith. treñkti, not Lat. truncus.
> Ernout/Meillet (1985:
> s.v. truncus) simply state, "Étymologie incertaine.
> Peut-être a
> rapprocher du groupe de trux ['wild, rough,
> ferocious, grim, stern'].
> Ou bien cf. gr. trúo: ['to rub down, wear out'],
> etc.? Le lit. trenkiù
> 'je heurte' est loin pour le sens."
> This group to me does not give the impression of a
> bona fide
> Indo-European word family. In particular, Gm. Strunk
> and Lat. truncus
> are suspicious; on one hand they are semantically
> and phonologically
> too close to be separated etymologically, on the
> other hand the
> identical final root plosives are in violation of
> Grimm's Law. Such
> partial formal mismatch is in other instances taken
> as a sign of
> borrowing. One possibility would therefore be mutual
> borrowing among
> the West Indo-European languages, perhaps with
> influences from similar
> words, such as the family of Gm. Stumpf, Engl.
> stump, also Gm. Strumpf
> 'sock', which originally meant 'tree trunk' (cf.
> Kluge/Seebold: 1995:
> s.v.), and Gm. stumpf 'blunt, dull' (originally
> 'maimed, mutilated',
> cf. Kluge/Seebold 1995: s.v.), and Gm. Stubben, a
> Low German loan.
> Another possibility is that the entire complex was
> borrowed from
> another language. In view of the limitation of the
> complex to the West
> Indo-European languages a likely source would be
> Vasconic.
> If we assume PVasc. +trunku- or +strunku- 'stem,
> trunk of a tree
> (etc.)', application of the sound changes leading to
> the phonotactic
> restrictions of word-initial syllable heads in
> Basque would yield unku
> in the Eastern dialects, ungu in the Central and
> Western dialects
> (Michelena 1977: § 18.9) First, the word-initial
> cluster +(s)tr- has
> to be reduced to the least consonantal [378 member
> (cf. section 20.2.6
> above), which is r-; second, word initial r- in the
> resulting +runku-
> has to drop (cf. section 20.2.2.1 above). It so
> happens that de Azkue
> (1984) lists a word unkhü '[Span.] tronco de arbol,
> [Fr.] tronce ou
> tronc d'arbre', i.e. 'trunk of a tree', but only for
> the Zuberoan
> (Souletin) dialect of the French Basque country. I
> do not know an
> etymology for this Basque word. Surely Löpelmann's
> (1968: s.v.)
> identification of it as borrowed Lat. truncus is
> problematical.
> Word-initial clusters of voiceless plosive plus r
> are, to my
> knowledge, never simply deleted in the loan transfer
> but treated in
> one of the following ways: (1) In the earlier
> history of Basque, such
> Pr- clusters are adapted by anaptyxis, as shown in
> section 20.1 above,
> while the plosive itself is often voiced or deleted,
> so that the
> result would be likely to be durunkhü or urunkhü.
> (2) In the more
> recent history of Basque, such Pr- clusters are
> preserved, and indeed
> there is, in the Basque Country of France, trontzo,
> with a variant
> form truntzo, meaning 'stem, stump, log, block',
> which is borrowed
> Prov. trons (cf. Fr. tronce), from a variant
> +trunceus of Lat. truncus
> that is rccon-structible on the evidence of the
> Romance words (cf.
> also Cat. tronch, Span. tronzo, Port. troncho
> 'mutilated, cut back,
> trimmed'). Perhaps then Eastern Bq. unkhü is indeed
> the native remnant
> of an old Vasconic word which was borrowed in
> prehistoric times into
> the West Indo-European contact languages and later
> reborrowed from the
> descendants of one of these, the Romance languages,
> into the one
> remaining Vasconic language, Basque.
> "
>
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
>
>