Re: [tied] Re: On the ordering of some PIE rules

On 2007-06-11 21:16, Sean Whalen wrote:

>> *trausta- may well contain *-sth2-o- as the second
>> element.
>
> How? Why?

A thematic derivative of a compound with a root noun as the second
element. There are lots of such formations. 'firmly standing' -->
'solid, trustworthy'.

> Well, the primary is not always the best ev. for the
> etymology.

But the meaning 'truce' isn't even frequent for this word anywhere, and
while 'space of time, delay' --> 'respite' --> 'truce' is a thinkable
development, I don't see how the various meanings in OE (and elsewhere
in Germanic) could have developed out of the semantics of 'peace'.

> There's no PIE *pres-; *proxWbhuxwo+ > Greek has
> xW>f before P with o>e when the conditioning factor is
> no longer present; bh>b after f or m.

I can't get sidetracked into disputing every odd private hypothesis like
the one above. We are discussing Germanic *fresta- ~ *fristi-. Whatever
works for Goth. fri-sahts will work here as well.

> Forms with and without h1 appear independent of
> placement in compounds; it seems to me that it's a
> stative morpheme.
>
> I disagree with that rule.

Such compositional clipping is commonplace throughout PIE, and affects
all laryngeals, not just *h1. What matters for the issue at hand is that
in composition the zero grade od roots like *dHeh1- or *doh3- easily
loses the laryngeal, as in Skt. devá-tta- 'god-given'

> Well, I evaluate it as: are there any examples of
> tt>ss after r?

In Latin, yes. *-rT-t- gives *-rss-, which may further develop into
*-:ss- > -:s-, as in *sward-to- > sua:sum 'dirty grey'. The actual
outcome varies, and forms with -ss- ~ -rs- are also attested, cf.
archaic Lat. ru:sum ~ russum ~ rursum (= re- + *wr.t-tó-). I can't see
any really good evidence either way in Germanic, but I'll try to find
whtever examples might exist.

Piotr